Please be gentle with me,I don't do engines, well, at least not up until now. I have decided to "dress up" the 351W under the hood of the kart as best I can. I know it will never looked traditional but I just want it to look neat when the hood is popped for maintenance. She is currently running an electric fan, and the previous owner removed the mechanical one. My mechanic has suggested reinstalling a OEM mechanical fan (which I have found a new old stock) for conventionality, and running the electric fan that is currently on the back of the radiator ( i.e. visible in the engine bay) on the front of the radiator (i.e. behind the grill facing into the engine bay nicely out of sight) so that it is still available to use at the flick of a switch during heavy traffic on a hot day. However, after explaining this plan to my brother-in-law who is also mechanically minded, he seems to feel that the two fans would work against each other. My questions are; a) would my mechanics idea work to the benefit of the engine? Or; b) is my brother-in-law correct and this idea is a no-no? Or; c) neither or both of the above? The engine is from originally a 69 Torino, but has been built (again by the previous owner so I'm just spouting off a list I know nothing about here, but I figure you guys would) using big cam, roller rockers, ceramic headers and does have a tendency to run hot, but without overheating unless it's one of the rare very hot days and unfortunately less rare traffic jams we have over here, and so far the electric fan has prevented her from boiling over. It's just so dammed ugly. It's a question of aesthetics, I don't intend to show the engine, but I know it's there, in the Bay, looking **** and I can't live with that. Any thoughts welcome and thanks in advance Paul
A proper clutch fan shouldn't need any help, but if the electric is reversible, which most aftermarket fans are, then the blade and polarity can be reversed to make the electric push the same direction as the mechanical... i.e. BACK
some auto manufacters run 2 fans... my 2000 jeep cherokee has a clutch fan for normal driving and has an electric fan that turns on when the AC is turned on.............
You don't need to reverse the blade, just the polarity. Well, actually you will be reversing the blade by turning the fan around to face the front of the radiator.......
x2 on the polarity of the fan. It needs to push air through the radiator instead of pulling. Usually you can swap ground for positive and put the power to the ground and the fan will spin the other way. A fan with a clutch and a decent shroud should cool well enough, but I can't recall seeing a thermostatic clutch prior to the 60's. I'm not trying to complicate your life by mentioning that, my point is that if you're trying to have a car look like it's from "way back" the fan clutch might not be "period correct". Personally, I accept the fact that it's 2011 and technology has changed. I take a much more liberal view of traditional than many people here. I don't find electric fans offensive, especially if that's the only way to cool the thing off. If you want to make your car look like it's 1957 and not take advantage of the hardware we have today, that's great. But if you have a V8 where a four used to be, sometimes you will need to make comprimises. Yes I have an electric fan on my '53. It doesn't look traditional at all. With the hood down, nobody knows. If anybody wants to get *****y about it, they can lose sleep over it because I won't. I don't care, it's my damned car, I define "traditional" for myself. Sometimes you just have to say "it is what it is" and drive it and enjoy it.
You never said what kind of car you are talking about. I have built a pretty good amount of hotrods over the years of many different descriptions and I have never found it necessary to run an electric fan on any of them. I think they are ugly. I think the pusher fan in front would probably reduce the air flow from the mechanical fan pulling on the engine side. Fans are only needed for idling. Once under way they are not required. In 1980 I was at the Nats during a full week of record setting 100 plus days. I walked by the Walker radiator booth twice that weekend to get out of the heat and both times there were several guys asking about replacement electric fan motors so that they could get home. That cured me from any electric fans. I was driving a 36 Ford with a stock radiator and a mechanical fan on a 283. It got just as hot in the 50s-60s and we got by with mechanical fans. People get scared and slap on an electric fan because it's easy. If it is a 50s-60s car you can be sure that it worked in hot weather without an electric bandaid. If it's a sectioned or channeled rod then the capacity of the smaller radiator can present a problem but they did that in the 60s too without electric fans. And unless you paint them flat black the pushers can still be seen behind the grill which takes away from the look. IMHO
most of the time you do have to reverse the blade, if you dont it will pitch off the balance wieghts and vibrate itself to death. I prefer an electric over mechanical fans, at idle and low speeds (when you need the fan most) the electric fan moves a lot more air than the mechanical fan. mounting the electric fan in front of the rad reduces its effiency as well as blocking part of the front of the radiator. my advice pick one and run it. Good luck my friend!
Thanks for the answers so far guys,but I don't want to turn this into a traditional versus nontraditional debate. The simple fact is I can see the electric fan when I pop the hood and I don't like it so I would like it to go the other way. I just want to know whether my mechanics idea will work. Keep the opinions coming thanks again Paul
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162030&highlight=bobby+green+electric+fan thats a great one there too, I was gonna do that on Da Coupe, but theres not quite enough room for it.
Yeah, sorry Tommy I should've mentioned it's a 69 351 Winsor running in a 1954 F 100 panel truck.And the current electric fan has no shroud. Paul
I run a similar setup. Full time fan rotated by the fan belt, and a electric pusher fan on the grill side of the radiator. The electric is switched, like your describe, so I can turn it on and off. Stock engine driven fans are designed to pull air through the radiator core. So make sure the electric is pushing air through the radiator toward the motor.
you will see the electric fan from the front, you could either: 1. use the stock fan with a fan shroud 2. use the electric fan with a fan shroud I'm running a 390 in a '54 panel with a flex fan and shroud.......and the FE's like to run HOT.
Where the electric fan works well is when a car sits at a standstill in traffic. We didn't do much of that in the 50s and 60s. I worked in a service station in the 60s and many stock engined vehicles overheated in hot weather. My 69 Vette with a 350 got hot in parades and the big block Vettes often had to pull out of line to make a cool down run. Mechanical fans that pull enough air at low rpm rob power at high rpm.
Hey Kripfink , I run a similar deal to your panel truck . '53 F100 with 400 ford ( midland) . I run a 16" elec fan on the rad and no mechanical fan at all . My elec fan is wired with a relay and uses a thermoswitch (set at 180) so just takes care of itself. Thermoswitch I use is a TRIDON brand and part number is TFS037 if you need me to get you one let me know - I owe you a favour . Rod . .
I like the link from da Tinman then could move fan to front of radiator help hide it and run a black multi blade mechanical fan. or leave it where it is and put one of the aftermarket chrome fan surrounds (not truly a full fan shroud) to help hide it. Since the motor is modified a bit I would keep the electric fan at least as a back up run via a thermostat tye of set up where it comes on a specific temperature. hope that radiator, hoses, coolant, etc are in good condition and that you have an over flow tank.
You could go this route:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/16-C...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories I added an aluminum shroud which polishes up nice as my valve covers and matches the overflow can
You guys are a bunch of scardey cats. My buddy is running a 351W in this 56 F100 with the usual 4 bladed fan and no fan shroud on the original Y block radiator. Absolutely no over heating problems. No it is not air conditioned. I'm sure our summertime temps in the mid Atlantic area are worse than England's temps. There is no reason that you must run an electric fan if you don't want to. I think guys hear all the war stories about hotrods overheating and panic with electric fans and shrouds and all kinds of coolant additives to head off a perceived problem before they know if they even have a problem. One thing to check if you have overheating problems in traffic is to make sure that your vacuum advance is hooked up to manifold vacuum so that the timing is not retarded at idle. That will cause the car to run hot in traffic. Yes you want full advance while idling in traffic. I know that all the newly built fancy trucks all have aluminum radiators and electric fans but They have been building these trucks with Hipo FEs and any number of high HP engines long before electric fans became the in thing. I'm not stupid and I'd put the largest mechanical fan that will fit with the most blades that I can find, space it away an inch from the core and give it a try but I would not fret over it. If you are not satisfied, then you can add a shroud if you want but ***uming it will be a tea kettle before you try it is just silly to me. This is exactly why I asked what kind of vehicle it was. Electric fans are a modern phenomenon. If the HAMB has suddenly gotten away from it's roots then I apologize for being an old coot and trying to "spread the gospel".
Try the OEM mechanical fan without a shroud................you may be pleasantly surprised at not needing anything else. If the results aren't satisfactory, then try the shroud and lastly the electric pusher.
I think your best route would be a mechanical stainless multi-blade flex fan with a shroud. In my experience the electric pusher fans don't work well and actually turn into an obstacle at road speeds. If the stainless is offensive, black is as close as a rattle can. Just one reporter's opinion, of course. http://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-HD-Six-Blade-Cooling-Fans,39902.html
I agree with Unkledaddy ... If you don't want an electric fan just remove it and install a mechanical fan (engine driven) along with a shroud. IF ... after having installed the mechanical you encounter cooling issues at low speed/idling then install the electric in front of the rad (wired as a pusher NOT a puller).
As I said before, I do have a nice OEM new old stock ready to go with, so I will definitely be installing that, but I think I would like the added security of a switchable electric fan as well, as you guys wouldn't believe some of the traffic jams we get on the way to shows and even to the grocery store over here, and all though it's a relatively freak occurrence we have had some ******* hot spells too. As far as the electric fan on the front of the radiator being seen through the grille goes, I have gold anodised mesh behind my chrome grill bar (see attached photograph) and you really can't see anything through it so I will add a pusher to the front, probably just reversing the polarity of the electric one that is being used as a pullar at the moment as hopefully it will only need occasional use. I understand what guys like Tommy are saying in that it worked fine in the 50s and 60s and should do now, but this is my daily driver and we get stuck in traffic that I would imagine is much heavier nowadays than when the engine was new. Paul
I suppose I should mention as well,as far as fitting a shroud goes, it's not the original engine in its original mounting position with the original radiator and I'm over here in England, in a wheelchair and I can't just pick one up off-t******lf, as I know for a fact the bottom of the OEM fan blades are ever so slightly lower than the rad. Paul
Not all electrics are simply reverse the polarity. The pitch on the blade must be able to do it. Not sure? Go to a race car (not a weekend wanna be Place)parts place most of their fans are reversable.
X's two-Try it out and see how it works-and put the temp gauge where you won't be staring at it and worrying. Not a problem if they run a little warm as long as they can maintain it.
The gold anodized mesh looks killer but could be killing airflow by as much as 50%. You might try removing the mesh just for '****s & giggles'.
The Jalopy Journal
