I have to say that the front end on that T a page back has had the arms bent to bring it closer into being correct, but not quite far enough. I did see that. Most of the time when you see that set up, nothing has been done to prevent problems. They could come out a bit further, but probably not easily.
I'll be making it safe and do some measurements to get that imaginary line pointing at the pumpkin for sure. I got it now, it's not the arms themselves, it's the steering/kingpin points that line up that point to the pumpkin. It's almost too bad someone built this car before I did, I would have done it differently, now I'm correcting many mistakes from the late 60's.
If you give me the wheelbase, the distance between king pin centers(where the spindel centerline intersects)and the lenth of your steering arms I can give you the lenth between ty-rod holes both fore & aft positions.
My layman's guess is that perhaps the axle was mounted backwards to get the tie rod in front... and if so, there might be some bad caster ju-ju to go with the backwards Ackerman? Gary
I don't know about getting measurements anytime soon. I have to do a drop-off @ 4am today, which is out of the ordinary... That's possible about it being flipped, although I think it's supposed to be like that originally. I had to lift the rear of the car up about an inch to clear the pipes on the ground since I mounted the motor lower than normal.
I believe G ment flipped right for left. Or front for back. Raising the frame to increase ground clearance will change caster unless rear mounts are lowered.
It looks like it was flipped front for back. Although I can't slip it properly because the radiator is in the way now (it comes all the way to the front of my frame; no room for tie rod). I had the rear of the frame as low as I could get it before the pipes hit the ground. I can drop the rear up to 1" to get the caster a tiny bit better. I'm probably going to go with the torch/heating idea on the steering arms. I've done stuff like that before on off road vehicles and nothing ever bent or broke yet or even showed signs of fatigue. With the current offset of the front wheels, I think I can get very close to an ideal Ackerman angle actually. I hope I didn't bend a spindle though during its' last run... I'm not even sure what spindles it's running. I'm also planning on cutting the tie rod in half and plug welding a piece of heavy tubing over it when I get my length correct after the steering arms are bent to spec. I have a list of new parts to get from Speedway once I'm finished with this week's jobs. (Steering box, column, and a few knick knacks).
Oh gosh, I didn't think of that... and I used to think I was observant! I'm pretty sure I've got them on right, but I'll check tomorrow after work. Thanks! Pending saving $ for a new steering box and column-shaft.
I can't tell if the radius rods are upside down, but it appears they are symmetrical either way. This week has been crazy, I hardly got to work on the thing at all... and what's more; I might end up getting a new job as a locomotive mechanic for Union Pacific Railroad soon...
Anyone know what the pointers are for distinguishing what front end I have? I think it's a Model A front as that's the only picture I could match with my stuff on the internet. The kingpins look the same (with those little curved cup things on top), as well as the steering arms and spindles, but I'm still not 100 percent sure. I kind of want to change my spindles as the car tossed itself off the road a week ago after a little too much throttle (darn supercharger makes it too hard to hold back! haha). I was planning on changing them just for peace of mind and to go with more modern stuff.
Stock A axle should be 51" kingpin centers and 36 1/2'' spring perches, it looks like an A to me but what do I know..... LOL I'd swap to some 37-48 spindles!
Mine is "just" over 50" from king-pin centers and just over 36.25" from spring perches. Thanks for the awesomely helpful information USMC50lx! I've already got over $700 worth of steering & front-end parts coming, so upgrading my spindles would be a later ordeal; although I'd love to do that in the future. For future reference would 37-48 spindles just bolt on with the same king pins ad still be able to use vintage Halibrand spindle wheels? Would it be safe to cut off those little balls that point up on each steering arm, grind the surfaces flat, & drill holes to use 5/8" Heim joints instead? Bad idea or good? I have to lengthen my tie-rod since I'm changing the Ackerman angle. I figured I might as well spend some more dough and do it right... if that's considered safe that is...
High quality heims are very very expensive and less expensive ones get worn out and loose due to lack of grease lubrication
It sounds like the OP is getting his problems worked out with help from fellow HAMBer's. With the front wheels he is running he should be able to move the tie rod ends out enough to get the Ackerman very close if not right on. This isn't the case with early Ford drum brakes. There is allways a way to run the tie rod behind the axle where it belongs, it just takes some thought and adjustments to certain components. The tie rod out front looks terrible and spoils an otherwise great ride.....imo
I would never use heim joints on a road car. why? every one I have ever removed from a road use car has been flogged out, or is rusty or dry and just nasty. fine on a dragster or other race car when its replaced once its worn, but road use cars just dont get the attention to warrant such a disposable component. you can, on the other hand, take the balls off, and drill and then taper ream a hole for later (39 onwards) sealed tierod ends if you dont want to maintain the spring loaded ones (which work just fine if looked after) my 2c. (which is worth about 2.28c right now )
I agree for the most part, i just don't like them because of the look. Chromemoly rod ends with the teflon insert can be had for a reasonable price and do better on the street than their non lined counter part.
Use QA1 rod ends with Seals-it seals and you are golden for a long time..Use a needle point greaser and once a year give a dab to both sides of the rod end [more to keep moister out than lube] and even longer will you be golden..I have rod ends [quality steel on steel] in the rear suspesion four-link, 37 years and at least 40K miles and they haven't loosened up yet but from day one with seals and yearly greasing..
I was planning on getting decent quality lined Chrome-moly Heim joints. Either way, I am one of those people that keep everything lubed (including motorcycle drive chains every single ride) so lubrication won't bug me at all. I'm planning on only driving the car at the strip and 1-2 days a week on the street. I was just trying to get around having to buy a decent quality $70 reamer for tapered tie rod ends. Honestly though, I like the look of Heims better than standard tie-rod-ends. Thanks for all the input guys! I have thought about running the tie rod behind the axle, but my space is very limited with blower pulleys and all that jazz behind there. Also, I measured last afternoon and it turns out I have more than enough room to move my steering arms out to correct the Ackerman angle (since I am not running front "drums").
I got my steering arms bent with the help of my best friend today, they turned out angled pretty close to where I need them.
Bought a new tie rod with Heims, and after heating/bending the steering arms it seems that my Ackerman Angle is pretty close, thanks guys!!
Thanks for taking the time to post the updated results. Always good to know what might work when similar problems come along in the future with our own stuff. Ed
Would it be safe to cut off those little balls that point up on each steering arm, grind the surfaces flat, & drill holes to use 5/8" Heim joints instead? Bad idea or good? I have to lengthen my tie-rod since I'm changing the Ackerman angle. I figured I might as well spend some more dough and do it right... if that's considered safe that is...[/QUOTE] A little late now, but, i cut off the worn balls and replace them - they are avaialble from restoration shops and very reasonable. I rebuild and use the early ford ends for those balls, they have teflon inserts that go in the female ends and make steering easier. When all is said and done the steering looks kinda stock - all Ford stuff - and nothing special. And that is the hardest thing of all to pull off.
[ There is allways a way to run the tie rod behind the axle where it belongs, it just takes some thought and adjustments to certain components. The tie rod out front looks terrible and spoils an otherwise great ride.....imo[/QUOTE] X2, don't ask me how I know!
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