Kinda OT, on my later model driver....but it really applies to all cars in a general sense... My current wheels have a fairly standard offset. I don't know specifics but that doesn't matter. I want to run a wheel from a car with a very wide track, meaning the bolt flange is towards the far outside of the wheel. This necesitates 2.5" or possibly 3" adapters to make them work.... Now, before you start condemning spacers, i'm not asking if they are safe. I'm a little afraid of using some that are that wide anyway but if I got them I'd not skimp and get cheap ones. But again, thats not the issue. What I'm asking is just how much does moving the mounting point so far from the pivot point screw stuff up? Obviously, talking about front suspension. I know with the wheels not rotating, it wont be easy to turn, but when the vehicle is rolling, will it cause any excessive wear on parts? Will it eat up tires? Keep in mind this is a daily driver, nothing I ever plan to take road racing so -optimal- steering geometry isn't that huge of a concern. Any insight?
All things right, the center of the tire tread should be at the center of the steering axis. That way the tire/wheel pivots around on the spindle rather than dragging for and aft. If you put a wheel on the car that has 3" more back spacing than stock and compensate with a 3" spacer you are back to original design. If you put a wheel/tire on that is 2" wider than stock you want to automatically have 1" more back space to compensate,- If there is room at the back, if the tire/wheel doesn't hit steering knuckles, spring towers etc. This is only of importance to IFS and IRS cars, solid axles don't care, well, the bearings care if you go to extreme offsets. That's another thing. wheel bearings are made to carry X amount of weight each and if you offset wheels the weight is cantilevered on them causing much more stress on them.
Stock wheel is about 6" wide? The new ones are at least 8....maybe 9. At full lock the tire will hit the frame, but thats not a big deal since I know not to do that. So it's not a big deal that it mounts further out if the tire is wide enough to compensate? The pivot point makes sense, I didn't think about that. Thanks DrJ. Think I'll try for the 2.5" spacers instead of 3", should keep things closer to spec.
If you're going from 6" to 9" wide, don't put a spacer in at all unless it's to clear mechanical/suspension parts on the inside of the rim/tire, that way you won't experience tire to fender collision so soon.
Well like I said the backspacing is different...they'd never work without spacers. I'll have to roll the fenders, but thats another "not a problem."
dependin on how it all works when bolted together ya might have clearance issues . are you usein spacers with long studs? or adapters? adapters usually break in are those **** cast ones . ya might have other issues too best too post a pic so we can see it all our selfs for better answers . could even tear out wheel bearins prematurely . hard too tell with out seein
Clearance might be an issue, but I'm more concerend with tearing parts up... I'd have to use adapters, they bolt to the rotor/axle then the wheel bolts up to that. Again, I'm willing to spend $$ there so my wheels don't fall off. I'd think about using long studs, but then again I'm not so sure sure about the idea of having a 6" or 7" long stud. I hadn't considered additional stress on wheel bearings. There will definately be more leverage on them with the new wheels. Time to confess....late model Camaro ('02-ish, 10-spoke 17") wheels on a '95 Sonoma (s-10). Sorry for the O/T, but again I'm trying to keep it non specific, just a general geometry/stress question.
From what you've posted, it sounds like you haven't tried them on the truck yet. Camaro was still RWD last time I checked so I think they will be a bolt up, unless the Sonoma is a "full size" truck 5x5" and the Camaro is 5x4 3/4" bolt pattern? As far as clearance goes, I just bolted a set of Honda CRV FWD alloy wheels up to a RWD '67 Volvo and they clear. Well ,they hit the center hole on the front hub but five 3/32" thick steel washers fixed that. JUST TRY THEM ON FOR SIZE!
I've had 95 camaro wheels on my 91 S10 for about 4 years now. I had to use 2" spacers all the way around. I've probably got about 150,000 on this combo now, with no problems at all. I drive the wheels off this thing every day, and use it like a truck should be used. I have noticed the front wheel bearings getting a bit sloppy though, it might have something to do with the 320,000 kilometers on it.
Eric, from first hand experience, I can tell you spacers, reversed wheels, and less back space than the vehicle was designed for does create stress on the bearings. I have dealt with various configurations down through the years with less than satisfactory results other than appearance. Sacrifices for cool were made. It is sort of being able to hold a 5 lb bag of sugar close to your body, but by extending your arm the bag of sugar becomes heavier to the point that it taxes the strength. It is possible to use greater back space, moving the enter of the tread toward the center of vehicle and not create stress. on bearings. That said, and considering that you do want to use spacers, from my experience, use the type that bolt to your axle and has outward studs to attach the tire and wheel. Loose spacers are difficult to get aligned unless you get spacers specific to your bolt pattern. Manufactured spacers usually come in a universal bolt pattern with slots rather than specific bolt holes. If you use the flat spacer, I suggest changing to longer studs. ***uming you use aluminum (most common) after installing, BE SURE YOU RE-TORQUE AFTER 50 MILES OR SO. Then, establish a habit of periodically checking the torque. If you remember when I had the gl*** body 32, it had thick spacers with very large tires. I changed the tires to a more accomodating size, eliminating the need for the spacers(about 2 in thick) and noticed no adverse effects. The 48 Plymouth I have now did have an aluminum spacer of 3/4 inch on the right rear. I did have a problem with the lug nuts working loose and breaking the studs off at the brake drum. This car had come from California and had been driven over a ten year period, so my problem may have been caused by fatigue. However, it made me more critical of spacers. A long time ago, my dad told me that the engineers could not be beat at their game. We continue to try. Jim
If I'm understanding your diagram correctly, the new setup has the tires in the same position relative to your suspension as before. And the tire's outside diameter and tread width is the same. The point at which the tires touch the ground and that distance to your suspension is still the same. Seems to me in my shade tree level of thinking there is no change in the forces acting on your suspension. ***uming the spacers will be as strong and rigid as the original wheel.
I concur with Mike51. The big deal is not where the mounting face is, it is where the tire contact patch is. This ***umes your spacer is stout, well-attached to the hub, and that everything is torqued down. The suspension can't tell if you have a regular backspaced wheel, or a deep backspaced wheel and a spacer.
the only diffrence you will really have is the front wheels will move more foward and back in the wheel well due to the mounting area being pushed out on the hub. there is a guy on ebay that sells some really nice hubcentric spacers that are made from solid aluminum ment for this kind of swap.
I have 16x9 1990 vette wheels on my 01 s-10, it required 1 1/2 spacers to clear everything which it clears well but the truck wanders & is darty on an uneven road now, Iv'e had it aligned twice & nothing seems to make a difference. Picture the old red flyer wagons steering, its similar to putting a deep inset wheel on with spacers, the wheel has more leverage to pull the steering when it hits a bump, also the wide tires track the road a little squirrly in the first place, ask any 90's or newer corvette owner, they look cool but mine will be coming off so I can relax a little more while driving.
If the center of the new wheel is in the same distance from kingpin as the center of the old wheel then all of your forces are the same.
I would try them on, but I havn't bought any such wheels as of yet. Ask me again in two hours and 3 minutes.... Thanks everyone for the responses. You've all been very helpful. If i put them on my truck, I'll definately keep an eye on the bearings.
I'm also an off roader, and although I don't run spacers, I know lots of people that do with 35-40" tires on an off road vehicle. Yes, if the tire is actually moved out, it does cause undo wear, but based on your diagram, this is not the case for you. People I know with Jeeps and stuff have run spacers for years with not problems. Not ideal, but you should be fine. Look at off road shops or websites for some quality spacers. I wouldn't recommend extending the lug nuts, get the alum. bolt on kind.
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