I've got a Model A frame that has had some sort of impact on the p***enger side rail at the cowl mount. It's mushroomed out the side wall of the rail a bit at the point of impact, and more importantly it's tweaked the rail upward from that point to the frame horn around 1" or so. I don't have access to a frame table or press, nor do I have a PortaPower, but I could get one of those if necessary. I'm new to A's and while I have a friend helping me out on the build using another frame he got, I'd like to learn to fix this one in the mean time.....the metal is in just TOO good of a condition to not try and fix it. I've done some searches on here and found several threads showing how they fixed the frames, but their issues seemed to be different than mine, and much more minor in comparison. The most prevalent method appears to be getting a length of box tubing, some jackstands, a PortaPower, and applying heat to the side of the frame opposite of the impact (as to shrink the metal back in place. Is it possible to just try heat application and shrink it close to how it was? Here's a pic of the damage:
You should be able to repair that rail cold.Heat should only be applied to a buckle when the damge being repaired is under tension. Doing so before can lock some of the damage in place . You will need some sort of fixture , press or frame rack to repair . This could be one of those situations where it may be best to pay someone that has the equipment and knowledge .
Unfortunately, the use of that equipment and knowledge is overinflated, IMO. I see guys wanting $500 or more.....I can buy a brand new tube frame or 2-3 original frames for that price XP I've seen guys doing it on here, and my question was about how to attempt it myself. The frame isn't usable as it is, and I'd rather destroy it myself than pay someone that 500 bucks to straighten it....I could F this one up, go out and find another straight frame for 200 bucks, and STILL be ahead by 300! lol
I've never done it on a c channel frame, but on tube midget frames I've used a big i beam with blocks of between it and the frame. strap/chain the frame to it and put a jack between the frame and the I beam.
The reason for the frame rack is for reference and measuring points. It also holds the frame for pulling. If you try to pull it back into shape, the frame would have to be on some sort of anchor that holds the whole frame and protects the rest of the frame from being altered by your applying pressure to the bent area. So overrated or not, they serve a valuable purpose. If you can make a jig that holds the frame and allows you to pull it back into place without bending any other part, then that is how you need to proceed. While pulling metal to straighten it, you will also want to rap on it with a hammer, just pulling without the hammer work can do more harm than good.
I'm a bit puzzled with the statement " that use of that equipment and knowledge is overinflated ", as its necessary to repair this damage. If you have other frames available for a small cost and if the repair doesnt work, and your OK with it. No big deal . The equipment available will have a huge influence on the ease and quality of the repair. An extra picture or two of the damage would be helpful as a better understanding of the primary and secondary damage conditions are necessary to formulate the plan of repair and the tools and materials needed.
I'm just saying that spending $500 to fix a $200 frame is good money after bad. Most guys on here who have done it or had it done to these frames mention how it takes them less than an hour to do both sides, an hour is not worth $500 or more unless you're saving something rare or curing cancer, IMO. The real meat of the matter isn't dissecting why the charges for paying someone to do it are so high, but rather how to learn to do it myself. I posted a pic of the bend in the OP, take a gander! Driver's side rail is true, didn't include a pic of it, only the p***. side. Just got a local quote, b/t $300-$600 most likely.....ouch! At least now I have a first hand quote, now.
Archimedes said, give me a fulcrum and I can move the world...... Make a poor-mans frame machine. 4x4, chains, bottle jack and an I-beam from the s**** yard....
heres how i do it, i am doing a different bend but the same principle applies - it's a 20ton press and it isn't even straining. I have used 48" pipe wrenches and a real big cresent wrench to tweek them too. Food for thought - right at that location (of your problem) is the prime spot for a 7 degree piecut so you can 'sweep' the frame. You do another pie cut just before the crossmember to bring it back level - the crossmember has a 5-7degree angle to it that you need to keep so that when the spring bolts up it is at the same angle as teh castor on the front axle. I'll go looking, if there is a 2nd pic it'll show a 'swept' frame rail and a stock frame rail - i think you'll get about a 3 1/2" drop. Anyway, if you choose to piecut then you could knock the problem out with a hammer as you'd be slicing right thru it - i'll go looking for a piecut too, if there is a 3rd pic thats what you'll be looking at, ok? Found'em, the piecut as shown is at the crossmember but if you look at the 3rd pic the near frame rail has the sweep and you can see where i welded both cuts. You might get lucky and cut the problem area right out. The other frame rail has not been cut and you can see how much it drops the front end. Shoot me a pm if yu have more questions or need info. oj
I fixed one with nearly identical damage. I tacked the frame upside down to some large (2 pieces @ 13 feet long) I beam. I had some 1.5" square tubing running acting as a spacer between the A frame and the I beam. My plan from the beginning was to box this frame front to back after kicking the rear rails. I templated the boxing plates from the good side. I plasma cut them from 3/16". I tacked the good side in. Then I set the bad side boxing plate in place and the about of pull needed could be instantly seen. By this time, I had done a lot of measuring to ensure the frame was square and dimensionally correct. Using my big Bessey clamps, I ****ed the damaged area down until the boxing plate fit like the good side. I checked to make sure I hadn't twisted the area at all then tacked it in. When I box a frame, I take a long time to sneak up to a fit that gives me a perfect inside edge to inside edge so that my weld has a natural valley to fill. The entire welding job takes a long time because I skip around doing 1" welds so that heat isn't concentrated in any one area. However when I was welding the boxing plates in the damaged area, I intentionally welded it hot ( slow wire speed, lotsa volts, long p***es). When the job was done, I cleaned up the welds with a grinder, cut the tacks and popped the frame from the jig with no noticable tension. The frame held like I wanted and it stayed true. Does that help?
even though this is o/t, its still a relevant issue to me. my 1971 elky frame is tweeked up front at the frame horns. i can tell someone heated and bashed it kinda straight but not much. core support sits crooked'er than a cop! is their any way to fix this without taking it to a shop that has a frame straightning table. will all my holes line up again? it appears my elky was rearend'ed and also tap'ed a car in front, the rear is also tweeked up 1''-2.5'' from left side. it hasnt dog legged the car yet, whats my best bet here. im open to anything, ideas, methods etc...sorry to hi-jack, but at least its a relevant topic. luke
Man...now you've got me to thinking if I even want to straighten it at all! Going to have to ponder this for a bit. Then, at least, I'll also feel like I'm repurposing it for another project instead of straightening it and thinking "damn, wish I woulda nailed it for this one XP" GREAT explanation. Here's another issue. When it was bent upwards, the metal was stretched on the side opposite the impact...SO, if theory holds true, just pulling it back down will now stretch the metal AT the point of impact, too. This would likely result in a slightly longer frame, other msmts being off, etc. Would it not be wise to also heat the stretched area WHILE pulling it back down, as to shrink the metal as close as possible BACK to it's pre-impact-stretched state?
You said you don"t want to spend any money.Rick"s method for fixing is dead on.You are not going to get it perfect but if you are looking for perfection it ain"t cheap.
I agree with Rick and Brad...and if that old frame took a front hit on one rail hard enough to bend it, it could possibly also have a diamond shape too. What makes me think that?? 30+ yrs as a frame tech... cav
Not inward, just back a tad..pick a spot on each rail, say a frt crossmember rivet hole, now measure to another spot on the other rail way to the rear. (diagonally) If you use the same spot side to side, both measurements should be the same. If not the same, one side has been driven back. Got to make sure you use the exact same spots to measure from on both rails. cav
I don't believe I ever used the word "parallelogram" while straightening frames... but whatever works for ya.....hope the info helps. cav
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