Isky has Windfield's desk ..... And a bunch of other Windfield's stuff .... Ed is 90 years old on the 10th!! Rich ..... if it shakes you'll not make all the power you could Smooth is better for power and Scotch.....
I was just now on the phone with Jack Costella getting our Bonneville rooms straightened out. But I am reminded Of Jacks V7 SBC that ran in E/FS some years ago. It vibrated and maybe was less efficient because of that. But it did get the record. In the case of the pictured crankshaft my concern would not be vibration limiting power output. My concern would be main bearing webs separating from the block limiting output. Again, talking is fine but someone is doing and we hopefully all benefit from his experience.
And speaking of Jack..... I took these pictures a few years back while working the short course staging. What you don't see at B-Ville, WOW!! Ron
So did the 4 ever 4 guys when they made their runs to Vegas. I talked to Mike (I don't know his last name but he was the guy that ran a 'liner with Kong Jackson back in the 90's. He's also the one that had that m***ive collection of NOS Winfield carbs.) anyway, I talked to him at the swap last week and he now owns 22 hours of taped conversations with Ed Winfield. I'm guessing he got them from Kong's sister, but he didn't say where or how he got them. He said the tape's brittle and he's having it transferred to a digi format and then he's going to edit them. Hope they see the light of day. It sure would be nice for Dan Iandola to have them to offer with his new Winfield book.
That is the 5050 motorcycle. Currently red tagged by the SCTA for unknown reasons. I believe it's best record is 198.904 with a fuel burning 250cc Honda. The Driver? Rider? lays on his belly, head first and looks around the front tire. My understanding is that this will be the fleet this year. These are all four wheel cars driven in the conventional position
Rich I think the solution to vibration is putting the engine on the dyno.... make a couple power runs to see how bad it is. I know you know it only takes a couple runs ...... wouldn't want to make a record lap and not be able to back it up. 2nd we both know that it is dangerous to loose an engine at speed it's not like you just ''pull to the curb'' Dyno the motor take it down and look at the contact between main bearings and cap...... If it look uneven I don't think I'd run it.
I'll try to stir it up! I have a question regarding aftermarket ring and pinion for an "A" rearend. I recently purchased a slightly used set that were used in a midget Halibrand type of quick change rearend and they are marked like timing gears. Does anyone know the purpose of this? Could it be a reference point used in lapping? Now a comment regarding J B weld, I have a small fuel tank made of stainless steel that is/was supposedly a deicer tank from a WW2 B 24. It had developed leaks at the bosses for the fuel line fittings. I took it to 2 different shops and had it resoldered but neither job held so I used JB weld which worked for a time and i would have to redo it almost annually. I also used JB weld to build up worn ****erfly's in Winfield carburetors. After a few years I realized the leaks started at the Antique nationals and or the 66 hillclimb. I would buy 3 gallons of Av gas or a racing gas 110 or something like that. I went back to the supplier and was told that the higher ends were volatile solvents and could possibly break the bond between the stainless and the JB weld. I normally use a premium pump gas and it didn't leak. I installed the 2 port engine in my RPU and it didn't want to idle. I found part of the problem was a Winfield carburetor ****erfly that had been pinned and built up with JB weld which had disappeared leaving a ragged gap at the edge of the ****erfly.(Not my work) Also when I took the carburetors apart I found that I had used one of the black multiholed type of gaskets currently available between the float chamber and throttle and it had bonded to the bare pot metal on one side but not on the other that still has copper on it and resisted s****ing. The old type of yellow oil paper was fine no deterioration I hope this might help solve some mysteries.
Bill Devcon ***anium putty works better the JB weld. Why didn't you just braze the tank? And equally why didn't you make new ****erflys
Blame Bluto for the slowness !!!! He is the needle that ties this thread together, don't you think? Ron
All those cranks are 180 degree cranks... dont know how the wills crank you speek of is "like a 2 up 2 down"??
The Wills St. Claire cranks were used for their strength not because the firing order was different. The inline four has to have 180 degree crank. If the crank was timed in 90 degree quadrants, there would be big delays in the firing order.. .
The only thing I could see the timing marks (dots) on the gears could be for is to make sure you install them the same side facing out when you change the ratio. Those rearends flex a lot and and they do not wear evenly. If you keep the markings facing out it would do the same thing.
Blame my slowness on My bad heart and arthritus hip and knee Anyone in Europe want a restored 31 A Woody?
Unless the rear has a ratio like 4-1 or 5-1 the gear set is going to be hunting tooth. That means that even if you match the set of marks, the next revolution the marks wont meet. It will take a number of revolutions for the marks to match again. This is done to equalize wear on the teeth--a certain tooth on the pinion won't always mesh with the same ring gear tooth with each axle revolution. And Steve- Bill said ring and pinion--what you posted would only be good advice for the ratio change gears
I realize there are probably better materials out there, but I didn't have a problem with pump gas I was pointing out a problem I had with Av gas. I took the tank to shops that supposedly were familiar with the repair of gas tanks. Had I known then what I know now I would have Silver soldered it. I don't really care to try to make a throttle ****erfly for a Winfield. I have 2 with after-market ****erflies . The shaft is knurled with a long straight pattern and the ****erfly is a diecast piece. While I don't mind making small parts such as air bleeds new linkage arms and wires, and side draft adapters there is a limit. Finding it harder to hit the numbers and now only good for maybe 3 hours I would rather drink beer and shoot ground squirrels in my back yard, big crop this year! I had a moratorium on shooting them for 3 years but now find I must put them back into the food chain. One season my wife shot 15 out of the rear slider. I can see out of that slider as I sit here and I see 3 small ones thumbing their noses at me.
I can't find a name on these but they are 8-41/5.125 I think that if I go down to 600/16's I still can get off the hill climb line in 2 nd. with a basically stock "A" rear end. With the exception of a small snubber I should be able to keep em guessing!
Hey all my banger brothers- I have had some fun in my A and now the old girl is ****ping out on me. I have 2 engines and I am planning a rebuild for me to do, but I was wondering who builds old bangers here in the metro Atlanta area for the other one.
After staring at this picture for an hour and thinking about the different fireing and intake orders I have come to the conclusion that the crank it self is a ballanced unit. What (I think) makes it out of ballance at a given RPM is the action that is happening on each crank pin. Take each gang of crank pins and think about what that piston would be doing at that given point of the cranks rotation. Gang 1, one is on the compression stroke and the other is on its exhaust stroke and gang 2 is on its power and intake strokes. Remember each gang is either a up or down. Now take a stock T crank and look at the first two crank pins (we can call them a gang also), one is on its upward compression stroke and the other crank pin is going down. Now for this pin there could be two different events (intake or power stroke). I believe the cause for the imbalance is the placement change of these events across the entire crank as compared to the regular T crank. Swapping sides of a power or compression stroke could put more of a load on one side of the crank and cause it to be off balance during a certain revolution. Just my 2 cents
[it harder to hit the numbers and now only good for maybe 3 hours I would rather drink beer and shoot ground squirrels in my back yard, big crop this year! I had a moratorium on shooting them for 3 years but now find I must put them back into the food chain. One season my wife shot 15 out of the rear slider. I can see out of that slider as I sit here and I see 3 small ones thumbing their noses at me.[/QUOTE] That was my dream. Shoot ground squirrels, or targets from the porch. Got my Contender with my personal .30 LSR cartridge. Couple of .223s and a .256 Win. Couldn't bring myself to leave home and now I'm to shaky anyway. Anybody want to buy a really nice Ruger #1 in 223?
Bill- Used to shoot ground hogs from the upstairs window of the shop. Now we have houses all around us, and for some reason I'm not allowed to shoot the vermin that infest them. Rich- Love the #1's Have one in 45-70. If a hippopotamus shows up, I'm ready! Back on topic- Balancing as I understand it. Comments or corrections invited. The best balanced engines are the opposed ones (air cooled VW, BMW twins, etc) but even those have vibration period, because the opposed cylinders are not exactly opposite one another. Had a BMW R60/5 that wasn't smooth until it got to 3K. Son has a R60/2 that is smooth until 4K. Different balance factor. With an inline four, you could build an engine with 100% balance factor if you had light enough pistons and rods, and heavy enough counterbalances on the crank. What this means is that all the reciprocating weight of the pistons and rods would be balanced by the counterweights, but the engine would still vibrate, for two reasons. First, the worst of the imbalance would be when the pistons were half way down, because the crank counterweight would only be counteracted by the lower end of the rod ,and the crank throw that it was on--the weight of the piston and top end of the rod would still be moving vertically. Even though the related pieces in the cylinder next to the one described are in the opposite relative position, the fact that they are different distances from the end of the engine, will give a side to side shake. The cranks in our bangers (and even the blocks) aren't as stiff as you think when the forces that are generated are applied--right Bluto? Another source of vibration is the fact that going over bottom dead center the piston and top of the rod "weighs" more than when it goes over top dead center. Sounds crazy--right? It is due to the acceleration of the piston, from a momentary dead stop at either end of the stroke- at the top, some of the crank movement is moving the lower end of the rod sideways, producing slightly slower acceleration than at the bottom, where the rod coming back to vertical adds to it. A slower accelerating piston "weighs" less--short rods are worse in this respect than long ones. Ninety degrees crank position is less than half way down the cylinder piston position. Net result of all this is that any balance factor is a compromise. Engine mounting, rod length, weight of parts, stiffness of parts (cast cranks are stiffer than forged ones-- not ultimately as strong, but stiffer), and probably several other things that I haven't thought of. Now back to the topic at hand-- the Winfield crank-- why was it a shaker? I think that it has to do with the m***ive counterweights, which when at half stroke the front one is exerting a lot of sideways force left (lets say) while the rear one is pushing right--or vice-versa. This will be interesting to follow, hopefully todays improved testing and technology will give us more answers than were available in Ed's day. Balancing has been a black art, but now with 'puters and FEA, and all the other whizzbang software, more of what what is happening in a very small segment of time can be ****yzed. In the old days it was "**** it and see". I know from experience, orienting and mounting of a motorcycle engine in its frame can turn turn a rideable bike into a pig. Herb
Excellent write up! I agree with you on the counterweights. I thought those huge counterweights were not really needed and would cause a major strain/twist on the crank pins (and the entire crank for that matter). I bet you could get away with removing those two large counterweights all together and focus on the ones by each main bearing. It would be interesting to try that out.
The longer you can make the con rod to closer dwell at TDC is to BDC dwell but BDC will always be longer The longer the con rod the less side force you have...... so the skirt can be shorter AND honest you can do all the math and figuring and never really know till the motor is in the car and you make a p***. But ''good guess' are possible with dyno testing. The large counter weights also hold and carry a ton-0-oil and toss it up into the bores.
?? how are ther fuel fittings held onto the tank I have soldered a lot of stainless in the past and just wondered why it did not hold also had lots of stuff fuel or oil related to fail with JB wels
Well, I'll be right down. I think they were swaged in. The tank ends seem to have been roll s***ched in I can't remember the original size of the tubing but it was a small diameter so we opened it up to 1/8 or 1/4. After a while they started to weep and as I say, I took it to 2 different welding shops. Probably just should have done it myself but it is very thin stainless. If I could find a large enough soldering gun.....
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