Hi all...my 390fe has begun to knock while at cold start ups. Could this be "Piston Slap"? The engine has 119,000 miles and is the original engine to the car which is a 1964 Galaxie. I'm currently running 10w x 40 Penzoil and Fram oil filter.
Use a hose or a Stethascope to find where the noise is exactly, I'd aim it towards bearings. Unless it is light, then it could be a lifter with bad leak down.
My 352fe started doing that recently, as well. Pretty close to the same mileage as yours. I was running multi-viscosity oil, and thought it might be worth a shot to simply add some Lucas to see if it was a "dry-start" situation. Bingo. Cured it right away. For the small cost of a bottle (relatively speaking), it might be worth a try. I was not looking forward to a rebuild, and it's now quiet and running perfect for me once again. It certainly couldn't hurt!
Is it deffinetelly a knock or could it possably be a manifold leak? My old car did that same thing, and it ended up being a leak. Just a thought Chuck
Special Ed What is this "Lucas" that you speak of? Your not putting British electrical stuff into the oil pan are you? Seriously-some kinda oil or additive? Oldmics
Thought about changing the oil to a Valvoline Synthetic and adding a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil treatment to it. Also (of course) change the oil filter to a motorcraft. What do ya'll think? Maybe it will fix the knocking at cold start ups?
id try lucas also. i run it in everything i own. im hard on my cars and they have held up just fine.it has made funny little hammering sounds at start up go away in a couple of cars. first off dump that fram filter. use a wix. or something in the same ballpark.and oil today is not formulated for our old cars. no or low zinc and phosperous (i know thats wrong spelling). brad penn is a good oil for these babies.so new filter better oil and a qt of lucky lucas and id think you would be good to go.
If it rattles for 5- 10 seconds it's probably loose bearings,a dry start so to speak because the oil drains back overnight.10-40 might be too light. If it rattles for longer than that it's probably pistons.Got an oil pressure gauge? If it take a bit for the pressure to come up,and the knock then disappears,bearings. I've heard 351 Fords knock on startup,didn't seem to cause any problems so long as it went away after a few seconds.
It's like STP oil treatment. The stuff seems to work pretty well... And to the original poster, as has been previously stated; "do NOT use synthetic".
I use the valvoline racing 50, very nice. I'm also a believer in good filters, like wix or motorcraft.
Does sound like worn main bearings, and it's not that difficult to roll a set in, and add a HV pump while you're in there. Might find a few teeth in there, too, if it has the plastic upper timing gear, and you'll know what to do
I had a 390 that knocked till it warmed up. I replaced the bearings and had the crack reground and left the pistons alone because it had good compression. I started her up and it still knocked. I figure it was piston slap. I drove it a long time w/ no prob and sold it.
Look at the filter,where its mounted. It could be letting the oil drain back out of the filter. Put a good filter on it and 40wt oil,can the multi grade stuff in that old engine. There may be a check valve in the oil filter mount,it may be bad. Its been years since i worked on an FE,but i think a check valve was in the mount.
With almost 120K on the clock, I think the motor is tellin' ya to have it rebuilt! That be the smartest thing to do..
If it has a hollow knocking sound until warm, probably piston slap, especially with older forged pistons that "grow" a lot if the bores are also a little loose- one of my 427's was at almost .012 clearance on old TRW medium riser pistons that were supposed to run at .007, and sounded like a grenade war going off inside until it got warm. If it has a deep knock for just a few seconds after sitting overnight, probably main bearings- as soon as the pressure comes up, the noise will usually go away
If its the stock cam thats in it, id just run Wal Mart 20-50W in the summer, 10-40W in the winter and call it a day. Ditch that fram and pick up at least a motocraft while your there. I run 20-50 in my worn out 352 and drive that bitch up and down the east coast. In my worn out engine I still have good oil pressure. Just my two cents. The only reason I ask about stock cam is if you put in a new Hyd cam in it run some zddp or something. I still run the wally world special oil in myne with zddp because I put an isky cam in it recently. And lasty listen the MeanGene for FE stuff, hes answered alot of my questions.
Thanks for the reply...Will I be able to tell by looking at the filter mount if the check valve (if it has one) is bad?
Lucas is comparable to Risilone, STP compares to Casite Motor Honey. I'll 2nd the Wix or Motorcraft filter.
This is your best advise, so far. I run Castrol 20-50 year round and have 295,000 on my daily driver, 93 F150. Being a flat tappet engine, i recently found and changed to Brad Penn 20-50 for the ZDDP stuff. I think I picked up 2 miles per gallon since the change. Good stuff. The oil filter on the FE blocks should hang straight down unless it has a truck adapter on it. Just use a good filter, Napa, Purolater, Wix NO Fram.
" Lucas " oil treatment is more like STP...very thick and is a viscosity improver...good for old engines that need to be rebuilt!
Get Rid Of The Fram Filter. Fram filters are not oil filters as much as they are open circuits where oil recirculates thru your engine ~30 times before it is filtered. Fram Filters are garbage. The diaphragm inside is made of cardboard and within minutes of installing them, the cardboard turns to mush and dirty oil is not filtered, rather it is sent thru the engine continually. It's a proven fact. The knock you here at start up is due to the oil draining back. When you start the engine, it takes several seconds for the oil pressure to build again. In essence, you are running your engine with little to no oil pressure for ?? seconds every time you start your engine. The wear and tear is horrific. Is that what you expect in an oil filter? Ditch all things named Fram. Even the NAPA brand filters filter oil. General rule of thumb is that the OEM guys sell great filters, whether you own a Ford, Dodge or chubby, the filters from the dealership are Good! - And Wix, Purolator Baldwin, All Good! Buy a good brand name filter from any of the above and you won't have problems with excessive knock at start up or the engine wear that goes with it. Read this: http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/fram1.txt Next, the filter survey itself: http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/ .
If the mains are shot it'll hammer a bit with light oil no matter what filter is on it, it's got too much bearing clearance and the oil can seep out of the bearings, so there's no oil "wedge", and it pounds metal-to-metal until the wedge is restored when it starts and the oil pressure comes back up- but it just seeps out of the loose bearings, not back thru the filter. You do indeed need a better filter (they stock the good Ford filter at WallyWorld for cheep) but a better filter won't fix shot bearings. Putting some Lucas in there might quiet it for a bit, but would only confirm that the bearings are shot, and you'd be living on borrowed time- only one way to fix loose bearings. Marvel would only make it worse, as it's more of a solvent/cleaner and thinner than the oil, not heavier. And once it starts to pound and hits metal-to-metal, it is wearing and getting worse a lot faster now
I have a 390 in a car that acts like the above description reads. Its been bored .030", big Lunati cam, and all the regular things done that entails a rebuild. It makes that deep hollow erratic knocking or clanging sound until it warms up just a bit and then you'll never hear it again unless it sits long enough to completely cool down.
Start it up next time and drive it instantly. As you leave the driveway, if it is more pronounced with that light load on it, it is likely piston slap. If bearings, it would really rattle for a second on a warm start up after sitting an hour. IMO
It is my understanding that thicker oil will not help piston slap, but I know it will do wonders for a little excessive bearing clearance.Valvoline 50W or 60W as mentioned earlier is a good thick oil. STP is alright if the motor is shot anyway, but you will need a putty knife to get it out of the bottom of the pan when you finally do rebuild it
Put a Motorcraft FL1A filter on it with 10W30 oil and see what happens. Its just an oil change, try it before you spend a lot of money. Use only a Motorcraft. If it dont help, you have lost nothing.
I had a 64 galaxy once same as yours only with a small block. same problem, it would knock erratically at cold start up and disappear soon as it warmed up. I had a Ford mechanic listen to it and he said it was piston slap but not to worry it will run that way for years and it did.
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