SBC cooling/ timing advance etc...

I don't run an overflow tank... Seems to me like once the motor gets up to operating temp. its gonna set its own level at the cap by overflowing & why **** it back in if its just gonna overflow it out again. I sure would get a shroud on it, though. That's your insurance that you're getting benefit of the WHOLE rad. area cooling when you're stuck in traffic idling. Remember, 1/2 in & 1/2 out on the fan blades is supposed to work the best. Some cars, like my 55 Chevy, were made with a formed sheet metal piece under the hood front going across sideways & almost touching the core support & rad. top so when the hood is closed it acts as an air dam & pretty much prevents the air flow from going over, & not through, the rad. core. Thats a benefit at hiway speeds. Also, makes me think they needed all the help they could get even in orig. form.

 

Have an abc in mine too. Pretty hot little motor but stays cool! But it's got a 180 deg stat and a 5 core br*** rad. Locks on 180 deg as long as there is air moving over the rad.....different story if there isn't. Lesson learned. No parades or heavy traffic driving!

 

I am running the eddy performer intake and 600 carb. You got a list of things to do/check. I'd take the carb off and tear into it. It should take less than an hour, check everything out, especially since it has been sitting so long. Eliminate that variable, then run a heat plate or carb spacer. I would insulate my fuel line, it sounds like you may have some boil over problem with the fuel, it is getting too hot and running like ****. Is it a ***** to restart after a long drive? If so you have heat problem with your fuel, which could be because your engine is running hot. I'd recheck your timing, I'd also get that vac gauge, that will tell you a lot. When you add more coolant let the engine run hot for atleast ten minutes with the cap off, so it burps the system. I would not run the 160 thermo, there should be no need to, you have a problem elsewhere. I'd run a fuel pressure gauge too, I'm running a mech pump but had very fluctuating psi, so a regulator has it set to 5.5. with your e-fan, make sure you have it pulling and not pushing air.

good luck, you'll get it figured out. You can take anyones advice, some will be right , some wrong. Just try one way than try the other and it should be obvious to what way you want to go.

 

Ditto on that been doing it for years on all thermostat replacements, helps belch out the air in the block.

 

Rust'n, I do at the end see some air bubbles in my fuel filter which is midway between my pump and the carb. So maybe the fuel is boiling?

The Master Plan:
1) Wait til it's cooled off outside.
2) Swap vacuum line from p***enger side to driver's side. Idle rpm should jump up. I can then adjust that.
3) I'm getting mixed signals on the 160 stat, so I'll try to source a 180 stat as a compromise. I will swap that so that I know what I have. I will also replace that coolant hose. I will also run the car with the cap off, and burp the system, for 10 minutes.
4) I will replaced the vacuum line from the intake to the brake booster.
5) I will twist my buddy's arm to come over and help me check the timing, and then adjust the distributor if needed.
6) I will fab a fan shroud?

That's what I have so far.

Rusty Angel, drilling that hole, totally necessary?

 

I read only some of the posts, and am going to weigh in. I have a 283 in a 40 gmc. I am also a ford guy, mostly drag race mentality. Top fuel, Alcohol, race fuel. I have worked on alot of engines. OK When I bought my truck I didnt like the way ot ran so I adjusted, replaced and fixed things. It runs great now. However I have 2 carbs. both are the same ones your runnin. 1 I took of my sons 289 which he says didnt run right but I never got around to tuning it. He complained of your exact issue's, carb was new out of the box, and when I put that carb on my truck, I had every issue your talkin about but never drove it so I cant say it over heated.( His car did overheat.) I also bought a fuel filter from Twilight Zone, and noticed I was havin alot of issue's, and I narrowed it down to the carb, when I pulled the top off it was full of white particles??? turns out it was the glue used in the new fuel filter... I figured I would throw out my experience. Good luck man.

Oh by the way.... I drill the 1/8 hole on mostly Ford thermostats. Chevys water byp*** through heater core is set up different so not totally necessary however it also wont hurt. Ford thermostats are horizontal as we all know and sometimes they dont get enough water to the thermo to activate so it can belch. The hole simply acts like a breather.

 

Thanks, will keep that in mind.

So my att***ude is thus, I won't be happy until I can control the temp and keep it under 210F at all times, though I'd really like to see it in the 190-200 range. That's what I'm comfortable with, and I'm not going to be comfortable driving more than a few miles from my house until I resolve it.

 

I'm with you Pro Stock, that sounds really reasonable, that engine should have no problems runnin at 180, and perhaps creap toward 195 in traffic. I hate workin on things along the road, especially whenr there mine.

 

Im having the same problem let me know how it turns out.I have 350 chevy with a turbo 400 trans.The motor has a small cam.The carb is an edelbrock 600 with a edelbrock intake manifoldand a petronix distributor.I have the original radiator recored,flex fan, 180 stat, fan shroud, and an electric pusher fan.My car also lunges when put into gear ,has low ideal like it wants to turn off when put into gear and the advance connected on the p***anger side of the carb . let me know how it turns out

thanks o2bdone

 

oh new carb and i have an electric fuel pump pushing 5.5.

 

Sounds like you and me both have to move our vacuum to the driver's side of the carb, or off the intake. If I try to take it from the intake I'll have to add a T fitting to my power brake vacuum line. Is it that key?

Is your Merc running hot?

 

no u use the port on your carb but on the driverside and adjust the timing from what i understand but let me know how it all works out trying to solver the same problem. Nice car by the way

 

We got a ton of rain over the weekend but Imma throw on an old t-shirt and go:
-Swap vacuum to driver's side, I have no throttle plate outlet on this carb
-Change out radiator hose and thermostat.
-If I have time I'll swap the master brake cylinder vacuum line too.
-Add in 1 bottle water wetter.

It's too wet to drive, but I should be able to tell if it idles better in drive at least. Does the thermostat just sit in the neck? Never did one before but I'm guessing it's pretty straightforward.

john, the hamb's newest sbc tech

 

Okay, swapped to:
-new vacuum line to brake booster
-new vacuum line to pcv valve (did not change pcv)
-new upper radiator hose
-new 180 stat, duralast/autozone
-one bottle water wetter
-ran with cap off topped it up after 10 minutes
-moved vacuum advance line from p***enger side to driver's side
-adjusted idle as low as I can stomach it in drive
-adjusted to a/f screws in front of carb til motor was shaking it a bit, and then backed it off.

1) First time driving, idle was still high and I had not messed with a/f mixture screws. Eventually got to 230F, I headed home. Didn't run weird or anything.

2) Adjusted idle down big time, and I believed I leaned out idle a/f, tightened clockwise till motor shook a bit, backed them back a bit. Next drive the car was hmmm at 210-215, seemed to hold.

Thoughts:
-I'm an LS1 guy not a SBC guy. To me the car sounds lopey like it has some cam in it. But I need a real SBC guy to listen to it.

-Driveability is better all over the place. No off idle stumble, pulls solid in all gears across all rpms.

-My buddy had installed the puller e-fan for me. I don't remember what F we had it turning on at, but I'm thinking I'll put it lower. We might have done 190, and I'd rather have them on at 175F to see if that makes a difference. I notice with the car off, and the e-fans on, in my garage, the e-fan/rad combo will cool the car down 10F very quickly.

-Idle does not seem high to me but the car is pulling against the brakes. Idle also sounds like it is going up a little bit, and when it drops a tad the efans sound like they drop in sound too.

-Maybe I should install a tach, I've had them in race cars and I'd know what it's idling at then. Just a small one.

-Vacuum brakes seem very smart, solid.

-My a/c condenser (is that what it's called) covers the visible area of my radiator. I just tested it for the first time and the A/C works too or at least the blower motor, blew a big pile of dust in my face.

----------------------------------
My next step is to check timing with a friend and also see if I can do more adjusting of the carb. If that does not work, I'll be giving some thought to taking off the AC. Then maybe a new radiator or testing the water pump. A new shiny rad has some appeal.

Thanks for all advice, I'm still all ears.

I took some more pics, they should be uploading right now.

 

New pics:

 

Looks like air can go around the radiator, that's no good, you need to seal up the front so ALL the air goes THRU the radiator, this is very important to efficient operation of the cooling system

 

Report back after you play with the timing.

I think you should have the efan temp setting slightly above what your thermostat temp is. So if the temp rises above 180, then the fan will kick on. Otherwise if you have it set below the thermostat temp the fan will be running constantly even when you're cruising at highway speeds (when there is - or should be - ample airflow).

If you are unable to maintain your thermostat temp at highway speeds you still have something wrong. I'm ***uming your radiator is ok and has sufficient capacity, your water pump works, etc.

Don't forget the shroud. It'll help when the vehicle is not moving and the fan is on.

 

Agreed. Gotta force the air that enters the grill to funnel into the radiator.

Also why a shroud on the back side makes a difference.

 

52 poncho many thanks for your info. Many of us have known this for
years, but lack your word skills.

 

I like DRJone's idea, having it kick in at 181-185F. I will see how it get adjusted.

I'm mainly concerned about stop and go temps. If I put in a 180 stat and it's driving light to light at 210F it's still not doing what I want it to do. And I feel like once it gets too hot my fan can't bring it back down. Once it's over say 205F the fan is on non-stop.

How thick would a 2, 3 or 4 core rad be? Maybe I should measure mine.

I was looking at my odometer, it says 4** miles on it. I wouldn't be surprised if the miles are low, this car went right past 230F the first 4 times I drove it.

Welp I have to check the timing. What should it be.

 

This guys make a nice shroud, anyone used them?

http://www.mahaffeymotorsports.com/FanShrouds.htm

 

I'm not real knowledgeable on the timing issue.

I think my rad is about 2 1/4" to 2 1/2" thick.

 

I'm sure comfortable to update my threads 5-6 times a day, but I did drive the car again just now. It's probably in the 80's right now here in Chicago.

I put the kiddos to bet, and flew past m'lady mumbling something about "need to see how it runs with less traffic..."

Radiator measurements/details:
2.5 thick
26 wide
17.5 tall
-Upper outlet on driver's side, lower on p***enger side.

E-fan is 16 inches in diameter. Comes on around 200F.

So the car gets to 200 pretty quick, thermostat works no problem. I had a few opps to get the car really movin', and the temp dropped from 200F to 190F pretty darn quick... Dropped 5 degrees just going 50 on one 1/2 mile stretch of road. On the stretch coming home after my 2-3 mile drive, the fans went off. That's nice.

My efan pulls hard enough to keep a small piece of paper stuck on the ac condenser.

I still have an issue with the idle being 400-500 rpms (by my ear) higher in park than drive, and I'm still two-footing the idle at lights. By my ear sounds like the idle in park is like 1200, and in park it's like 500-600 but I will check that professionally. With the super low idle my gauges were flickering at night. Two foot it up a bit, they were solid and my charging per the gauge was a solid 15-16 amps.

Dumb Q #1: Can I use ABS/ hard plastic, I have some sheets of it, to rig up side shrouds? To do aluminum I will have to ask a friend to make something for me and that might take a while.

I'm thinking next time if I:
-cover the sides of the rad;
-lower e-fan start temp to around 185 no higher
-maybe rig up air cleaner (I'm not running one right now)... I used to have a cobrehead transition piece lying around. Maybe I can rig up an air cleaner that pulls air from the p***enger side rear area of the engine compartment, that would not be in the direct path of the e-fan air?

I wonder if it comes thru the web how much I don't like futzing with this stuff.

 

This website has been intriguing me too:

http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/fans/21-9018/shroud-p-2648.html

 

Vintage Air has quite a selection of shrouds. Can be seen with dimensions on their online catalog. Are ABS I think & cost around $90. Places like Summit & such sell them & others, look there too. Good luck, waiting to see how you do, I'm at about the same point with my car.

 

I'll check out Vintage Air and Summit, thanks for the suggestions. Shroud + lower the efan starting temp are the next two things I can do by myself but they are not going to fix the idle issue that I know.

Will fiddle with timing as soon as I can get one of my friends to come over.

 

I think I really need something like this:

http://www.cfrperformance.com/CFR_ULTRACOOL_RADIATOR_FAN_SHROUD_UNIT_25_9_16_p/hz-1009-31.htm

 

John - I like that CFR site you put up. Gave me some food for thought. I'm thinking about going to my local sheet metal shop with a picture of theirs & just getting the right size piece cut & flanged. I can lay out & cut for my fan opening myself. I'll also cut it in two halves, upper & lower. Easier to install & for sure easier to do a roadside water pump change on later. I can attach a couple 'forked' tabs on one 1/2 to align & hold the two together for more stiffness when ***embled. I'm running a 18" flex fan & only have 2" from the W. P. snout to the rad. core. A flat piece like CFR shows & about a 2" flange would do me fine & be easy to build. All the others I've seen have a 'funnel' shape that takes up more depth. Simpler is better for me.
Has your car got any kind of a baffle mounted under your hood to seal off the above the rad. area & force the whole road speed air flow to go thru the rad. & not over it?

 

How much room do you have between the radiator and the nose of the water pump?

If you run the electric fan with a shroud you would have to mount the fan to the shroud for the shroud to have any effect.

I think a better plan would be a "stock" style mechanical fan and a good shroud.
A stock clutch fan would probably work best.

 

I have very little room it's like 2.5-2.7 inches.