Customs Where to draw the line... (Customs Only!!)

radial vs bias has been done to death on here. i drove my 53 belair every day for a year and a half with radials, switched to bias and ran those for 2 years. the only difference i noticed was it turned better, and a SLIGHT wander on the freeway.

 

I did the same thing switched between radials and bias plys on the same car but with a more noticeable difference then you. So much so that I only had the bias plys on for one summer, taking them off when I left the state to attend car events. Just wasn't worth it to me to drive with those on. They were free from a friend so thats why I was giving them a shot. I ended up doing so many burnouts in them just to use them up. If I would have known Richard D would have wanted them I would have given them to him almost brand new.


Your right, topic beaten to dead on here thats for sure.

 

gotta say denise, no matter what side of the fence youre on, thats the proper way to take care of an extra set of tires. ha ha ha

 

good thoughts
thing is, just because a car has airbags doesnt mean it has to be laid out.


my thoughts on how to have a blend of the best of both worlds.
modern brakes are great.
newer improved shocks are awesome.
more efficient engines are hard to beat.
bias ply tires look best on most older cars.
shiny paint should always be the ultimate goal of a custom
(in the mean time, keep what you have clean)
interiors should be done in period materials for traditional sleds.
modern stereo equipmemt should be hidden.
windows should not be tinted (except for factory shades).
the car should be displayed with the hood, doors and trunk closed.
custom=profile and profile is everything to a custom.
just my 2 cents worth.

 

My opinion with a kustom is "If it don't show when parked with the hood closed, late model parts are fair game" Same goes for the interior. I will beat someone if I see one more digital summit multi-gauge setup or a monster tach in a "supposed-to-be-traditional" car......

My friend Kurt McKormick takes all kinds of heat for this exact topic when people look at his Barris Kustoms. He believes that the topside and interior are sacred and all else is fair game. He told me just the other day, about how he tells people where they can stick their cloth wiring.......

He drives all of his cars.....EVERYWHERE......He knows what it takes to make shit reliable....

Most of his collection can be found here: http://public.fotki.com/rikster/11_car_photos/beautiful_custom_cars/kurt-mccormick-coll/

 

This thread has gotten me thinking a bit... inbetween deals on OT cars at work that is...

Ya know, I think that, to me, the point of this board is traditional styled rods and kustoms. Let's face it, there's probably not one truly 100% traditional car on this board, unless someone is mixing up their own leaded gas, and running NOS motor oil.

Bias ply tires, flathead V8s, OHV Olds and Caddy motors, Reverse chrome wheels, lakes pipes, tuck and roll interiors, 56 olds dashboards, frenched lights, the right pinstriping, lincoln or Buick brakes, stuff like that. To me, this board is about keeping things in the spirit of how they were done in the 50s and 60s. If I throw a pertronix ignition in my car, does that make it non traditional? Heck, there's a lot of sentiment on here that AC isn't traditional.. well I am buying a 57 Lincoln Premiere with working factory AC....

To me, drawing the line boils down to stuff that isn't in keeping with tradition... stuff like digital gauges, billet shit, painting every square inch of a 37 Ford Ferrari red, 20" chrome wheels, ZZ4 crate engines, putting a 350 crate motor in anything, EFI, power seats out of some modern luxury car, etc. That's the kinda stuff that turns me off.

But what the fuck do I know.... I still have a lot to learn and am thankful for this place because I'm learning a hell of a lot!

 

Life is full of compromises. I say, as long as YOU like your car, then you're doing OK.
When you go to a show, how many truly traditional cars do you see? Maybe a few rods, very few customs. Everyone "cheats" somewhere.

I'm only in the beginning stages of building a period car right now. I've already figured out, I just can't afford it. Old speed parts, gauges, carbs, intakes etc.. Cost a bunch of dough.
I'll try to make it flow the best I can. Use repop parts when I can't afford vintage.

In the end, if you really want it done like it was the 50's or 60's, you can do it.
If you don't, that's fine too. Just use good judgement.

 

Actually there is, there ARE quite a few completely original hot rods and customs from back in the day that haven't been touched. Folks around these parts are pretty proud of not only their barn finds but original owners that still have their high school cars......and I'm not taking about just old stock cars.

 

i agree too,all but the 'hood shut' thing if i have any ''weird'' engine in there other than a small block or big block,i say show it,, how many non-car folk are gonna know what a 'leaning tower of power' is.or if it's traditional or not, just my .o2 cents--chuck

 

hell you jst described a traditional turn of the century street rod.
just hang around for a few more decedes and see if im not psycho, er i mean psychic, yeah thats it.

 

Sounds to me like you may have it figured out...

Not much has been said about engines so I'll offer this...keep it in the family. Yeah, I'm a sbc hater......actually, each and every engine has its place. You won't catch any crap if you have an Olds in an Olds or even a Buick in an Olds, but put in a shiverlay, Mopar or Ford and stand back. As noted, the shit storm will get worse if you use some late model crate engine with mega-dollar efi attached.

Regardless of the car you are working on there is an appropriate engine waiting on craigslist for it.

.

 

i understand what you're saying, i just think in most casews custom cars look better when you can see the flow of the body lines.
i just perfer hot rods as a way to display really cool motors.
i guess everyone has their own prefrences.

 

im with you duke. i was just talking to oz last week regarding this very question. proportion, flow, etc. plays the biggest part on a custom, and when a show requires you have your hood, doors, etc. open, it ruins the lines of the car. when im looking at a custom, i want to see how everything flows. i wanna see the gaps, etc. wanna see under the hood, ask me and i'll pop it for ya. or you could always go the gambino route, and just ditch the hood all together...

 

My '51 is highly inspired by the HAMB, but radials will stay on the car since I don't care how they both look (to the nth degree), and I will make driveline changes to make the car reliable in a power tour kinda way. There are very few modern build Mercs that are ultra-trad, Neppl's car is except for the paint. I want the classic look and vibe but want major reliability and safety too.

 

I think when it comes to traditional customs I'd like to see'em not overkilled with alot of fakeness. I've seen some customs that I thought were really cool then looked under the hood and was killed by billet crap. Or lookin at a mild custom that I felt was traditional then the interior was too modern. But here again it depends on the owner and not the general public. What is seen as traditional to one is not necessarily the same to the other. It would seem fact but not really. But honestly what is traditional? Customs haven't changed a ton in the last 40 plus years or so. Lot of the same things being done although product and method may have. Just my 2 cents.

 

On Edit, I guess I should clarify my comments as to what I consider a custom. I am (67) years old, and when someone says custom to me I think of my high school days seeing a '55 Chevy with Packard tail lights, frenched headlights, shaved, decked, lowered to the road, welded rear end, and a cool paint job with rolled and pleated leather interior.
So I may be out of touch with my comments from what a lot of you younger folks think....
Cheers,
Bob

 

I have to argue with you on that one. I hate like hell to have to open the hood on the 48 at rod trots as I think it breaks up the lines of the truck and takes a way from look I am trying to present. Customs aren't about the engine they are about stance, body mods, interior mods and the total outward appearance of the vehicle.

Getting back to the subject Michael presented at the top of the thread, I'm as guilty as many others in that while I am going to attempt to make the 48 close to era correct it will have a modern chassis and drive train under it. The plan is for driving it on a number of long distance trips after we retire and I want to drive the truck at what ever the going highway speed is on the road I am on at the time.
There are a couple of things that I am in a quandary about on it but that is just seat choice and steering wheel choice. The seats because I have them and they are comfortable over long distances. they will get upholstered to look like they might have been done in 1957 or so though. The steering wheel thing is still up in the air and isn't a done deal but it is just a smaller version of the three spoke wood wheels that were on a lot of sports cars in the 50's and 60's. The sound system and ac system will be hidden from outside view to all but the most observant.

Personally I have always thought that the bagged and aired out thing at shows with the front tires leaning in at 30 degrees was a pretty close second in silliness to the donk thing. Bags should be so that the custom car can clear obstacles such as driveway entrances and exits and speed bumps, along with maintaining stance when the vehicle has travel stuff in the trunk or extra passengers. They shouldn't be to make the car look broken and silly out in the middle of a car show just because it is the fad of the week.

 

oh man.. i soo wanted to stay out of this, but i cant!! i know the tire thing is beat to death BUT u have to factor in a few things..i always spouted off about hating bias plys. now im running them on my olds, and there fine!! but that because i just clipped it with a z28 subframe that has all new bushings etc.. it was undrivable, and dangerous befor with the 50 yr old lowered suspension.. and seeing that 4 ball joints were over 500 $ it was cheaper to change the goddamn frame!! my merc was a horror show with bias plys, and with the "traditional" lowering it had was a deathtrap on the hiway, so i rolled with radials and the problem was solved.. same as my deuce.. the other factor is living in new england, with pot holes, and frost heves that knock my 98 4x4 chevy truck off the road.. so i guess if i had decent roads, and enough money to replce every front end component im my cars i would run the much better looking bias tires , but in the real world it aint happenin..!!! and i dont open my hood so youd be right assuming i have a sbc in there too, but 2" pipes and real cherry bombs while i rip thru 5 gears youd be too into the music to even wonder whats under my hood!

 

I like ANY car (rod, custom, drag, etc) to be built to at least look period-correct. I would rather be fooled by well attempted fakery than see some mish-mash of styles, or ANY late model parts put on intentionally.

Radials, discs, hidden or subtle comforts don't bother me. But get at least as close as reasonably possible to period-correct. If nothing sticks out as obviously too-new, I'm happy.

I also don't know why anyone would put a Lecarra wheel on anything. Hell, a stock wheel would be better.

I was at a show once and saw a perfectly done hot rod...with PINK Taylor plug wires right out in the open. How could the guy get 99.9% of the car right, and do that on purpose?

 

If you can't see it, it is not there, and therefore OK, is my attitude for a traditional kustom. I don't like bags, but air bags are OK if you are not laying frame, but keep it high enough to be 'legal' if it is a street kustom, maybe let it drop a bit lower if it is clearly a 'show car.' I believe in safety improvements so I can drive without worrying. If it is low and the wide white radials are not in your face, like on a fenderless car, that is OK with me. You can't see my disk brakes or rack and pinion. I keep my hood shut except on request as my early hemi is a bit modernized, though most folks miss it on quick inspection. A modern stereo should be full hidden.

Lots of things in life require compromises, and almost everyone needs to make some of them in a car that get regular use. If you want to trailer your car to an event, don't make the compromises; but if you are driving it on trips for hundreds of miles, I will not criticize an owner who adds radials, and other reliability and safety improvements.

 

Without reading any replies, my thoughts on this is I can respect a car with modern touches if it's something they drive. I mean really drive. If you put discs brakes and a modern engine and IFS and air bags that drives on and off a trailer, it's a waste.

Some people just want to drive their cars, drum brakes are intimidating and need adjustments and fine tuning, disc brakes are easy. If they are driving it and it's safer, hell go for it.

Some people want to drive their car, be able to go into the parts store and be able to walk out with a part and get driving again. Then some of us are masochists, ready for the punishments that come with running old stuff. Willing to put the effort in learning and fine tuning things.

If the car has the look, and you don't see the stuff, it's cool with me.

 

My Merc isn't traditional,never claimed it was. It's traditional looking,IMO,but what's underneath is just what came with the car. I really don't give it much thought.

 

Just depends if it's a true driver also. Look at what our brother Alex Gambino is going thru on his drive in the southwest. Brutal. I hope he's ok. Glad I've modernized the stuff u can't see, I've lost some tradition I guess. Been there, it ain't fun on the side of the road

 

Im all for 100% tradition when it comes to what somebody would see as im cruising down the boulevard, or when they peek in the window while my car's parked outside the store or whatever. But when it comes to under the hood and suspension, i couldnt give a rat's ass. I drive my car daily with the straight 8 and boy would i LOVE a V8 Bias plys, however, are a must

 

I could give a rat's.........
Every generation of custom builders have people who have their say on what is right & wrong. Then look out, a trend happens. Let's just say I never bought a magazine of cars with pastel colors & the wrong wheels. In my eyes trad. customs were done right up to the mid 60's. BTW radials were new then right ? If you built your car safe, with cool taste & you enjoy the heck out of it, then you must've done something right. Does anyone's opinion really matter ? How many folks know when & what kind of air bags were used back then. When were radials first used & amazed custom owners with the nice ride a set gave their car ?
Fast forward to 2000 & oh my goodness, all hot rod hell broke out ! "Retromania"..... My friends are what matter to me, not by how they built their car.

FYI, I cut my coils, run a I6 with most of the right stuff & no air bags, & drive it every day it's running good. I see a couple of you nailed it on the head. Just my .02 cents.

 

My Kustom is my daily form of transport, whether at 30 mph around town or 70 mph on the motorway. I'm quadriplegic with no spinal control. I have travelled in the Kripple Kart on both bias and radials. I don't like being shaken around like a rag doll. I will keep my radials. See below;

I could have written this but probably not as well. Thank you, you have pretty much summed up my philosophy in a nutshell The only thing I would add is I personally wouldn't use anything less than 70 profile, and in my opinion when you look at a whitewall tyre on a fully fendered car, most people will notice the white wall before what type of tyre is on there, unless of course you're talking about super modern rubber band aggressive tread pattern ultralow profile crap. And of course, I don't think anyone with half a brain on this forum would.
Paul

 

bias ply tires??? run bias tires in the mountains during a rain storm & you'll never run them again!

 

My 2 cents; when it comes to customs, there shouldn't be "a line". Creativity and doing something different, unique, etc. is the very definition of a custom. The builder should do whatever pleases him or her, and not worry about how the result is perceived. If we start drawing lines, we limit creativity, which is exactly the opposite of what the hobby needs to move forward and carry on.

 

This is my opinion and don't want to offend anyone, but I say its your car and who am I to care how you built it. This is a great hobby and to put someone's car down because you don't like one minor detail is lame. I enjoy looking at every car. Even if I don't like the car I could walk away with some neat idea that the owner implemented. I guess that is the engineer in me.

Personally, after my car is finished you won't find me sitting behind it in a law chair bitching up and down about someone's ride at some show, It will be the car sitting outside the fairground gates if I decide to go to the show at all. I just never been interested in the show thing because I didn't build it for the general public, I built it for me. As long as I am pleased with the work i have done that's all that matters, and trust me I am hard to please. During the course of the build the intent is to built the car to drive and safety is and always will be my number one priority.

As for the air bag dispute check this out.....

http://www.shadetreemechanic.com/strutmaster_air_helper_springs.htm

so are they traditional?

 

For me, the line gets drawn depending on the mileage driven. Yes, the exterior and interior need to look right (I absolutely HATE tweed interiors on a 50's looking custom, as well as modern mags, billet steering wheels, etc.)
But to be able to drive a car a LOT, I build it with comfort, safety and driveability in mind. I like radials, modern engines with overdrive trans', and AC. Modern radio/CD player, too, but it's usually hidden.
My chopped 55 Olds, I drove over 140,000 miles, going all over thecountry back in the 80's and 90's. After driving to Springfield Missouri, for a Leadsled Spectacular, I needed a 1 hour back massage, and a chiropractor, cause it had 7.10 bias ply firestones. The only reason I didn't put radials on it, was that wide whitewall radials were not made back then. Those bias were miserable to drive on the lousy roads around here.
I've drive to some of those long distance shows (more than 200 miles) by myself, and the radio/cassette/CD player was invaluable those times.
I do most of my traveling in the summer, so AC is awful handy when it's 105* in Des Moines in July, and I've got a 1300 mile ride home after the show!
But when doing more of a show car, like the Kart, or a short distance runner, I try to stick to more trad details in the build, since it's not going long distance. The Kart is period perfect, down to the finicky 3 x 1 side draft carbs, bias ply's, and static lowering. But it IS driveable, but not comfortable.