Well F&J......you may think your 303 is boring, but your one up on me cause yours turns free and mine doesn't.....oh well, I'd be happy with your score, at least it showed up and thats a plus!!!! Thanks for the info and letting me know it's a 324.....now if I could just track down what the "9" is or means? Is it possible that it is just an early late 324 with that number or what is the signifigance of it?
mndodge; if you can take an overhead pic of the rocker shaft ***'y laying on the floor, flat...and take the pic straight down, I should be able to tell if the rockers are 1.8 or 1.5. Many racers ran both back then, depending on the cam grinders specs. I wonder if those rockers are over the counter Olds from the export J2 stuff? They would be Engle? A elder Olds guy I just talked with claims Engle made the export cams..
Here my 2 cents, Screens are on all the 303-324 blocks 49-56 I think you need to just worry about what kind of shape the castings are in and what hard parts are usable[blocks,heads,rods,crank ect] Block numbers are no big deal on these motors.... Everything else is rebuild items Center ex port number tells us what year heads they are, You need to find out really what bore size the block is, we sonic ck all of them to see how thick the walls are before determining how much life is left If it is a 324 and its 4" now... theres nothing left of that case as its already an 1/8 over and rusty also means theres nothing to sleeve...dont go there Tony
Thanks Paul.....now i have a starting point! F&J......a couple of minutes and I'll grab a couple head shots.
Those rockers are Isky, They made the export kit not Engle, The cam in a 55 block would not be a J-2 over the counter as the cam journal size is different Tony
Yes, I knew that but as the rockers did not look familiar to some of us, I though maybe the builder bought them at GM. I am supposed to call the elder tonight, who said it was Engle. See what he says; he claims he talked to the "old man himself" maybe he talked with Isky. Anyways; I would see what you plan on reusing, starting with the cam. Pull the timing chain off to use a degree wheel that you can print off the net. Then you need a dail indicator to check the lift and also try to come close on the duration. Even if you don't want to use the cam, make sure you label each lifter as to where it was in the block. I'd be thinking a 60 over 324. You should be able to find a 54-56 block that will clean at 60. Forget the pistons, too much compression and probably toast anyways. EDIT: MAke that 54 or 55 block if you want to reuse that cam, 56 was the large journal. I like the iron flywheel for a driver. I am loving that Ford T-10 and bell...I am jealous as all get out. Maybe drop the pan to see what it has for rods.. then start soaking/s****ing the bores from both sides. Not sure how difficult it will be to get the crank out with stuck pistons.
I shot a picture of the piston and not worried about taking them out cause they look like toast as do a couple of things, but that is the plan to take all apart and check things as they come out and see what is in the ba*****t of the motor.....I think you were dead on about the motor early on, the guy that I boughyt it from.......the story is short, but the car was a 49 ford coupe and he bought the whole package (car/motor) from original owners daughter, owner had p***ed.....but the story goes, this was the fastest car in town back in the day, never lost a race and car was parked somewhere around mid sixties or so and never ran again.....The owners daughter said many tried, but never beat the old man with the rocket powered ford.
Now that that I know the block is 54/55, I am just thinking he must have used the heads as cores and just built them up since on is a #14 and one is a #16.....must have put a few bucks into this back in the day I am guessing.......so with it being from that year, why didn't he go with #10 heads.....is there bigger ports on the the 371 heads?
Pic of rocker stand needs to be straight down, not angled. but here is how you can tell youself: Look at one rocker stand real close. If the rocker shaft seems to be just about perfectly centered between the small bolt hole and the big bolt hole...then it is a 1.5 When they changed to 1.8's in 52, they had to move the rocker shaft so close to the big hole, that the the shaft is almost rubbing on the shank of the big bolt. The 1.8 stands I have seen, if you look down the big hole bore, it actually cut into the bore hole for the rocker shaft. So, if the shaft is almost touching the big bolt, it is 1.8 And you can't ***ume they are stock 371 1.8 stands, just because the heads are. 3 old racers all told me that 1.5 ratios were used a lot, even though 1.8s were already on the market.
My eyes are going screwy.. Tell you what, I will put up a pic...give me a while. On the head selection. I myself, am not getting caught up in the differences of the 324 heads. I have 55 #8 and 56 #10. The only reason I will use the 10 is that I have them. I have been reading a lot of the old threads in the archives. Lots of lost info hiding there. One thread talked about 55 vs 56, and unless you are building an all out high rpm motor, it sounded like you won't see much with a 10 in normal use. Any 324 head on a 303 is way better because the 303 ports are incredibly small. If you look at the design, it almost looks like they planned ahead and knew they were going to increase the port size at the intake flange. It looks like it was meant to be hogged out. You have so many good parts there, from the awesome stick setup to hurst mounts, cool valve covers and dist. Don't wander too far away from simplicity. Just my thoughts. That Model A will fly with whatever you decide on for a block.
Hope you can see that the drill bit that is in the big hole, appears to be right at the edge of the rocker shaft hole on the 1.8 next pic shows a piece of paper towel pushed into the 1.8 big hole, and you can see that both bores actually meet ...you can see the paper towel showing in the bore.
I will have to head out and really take a good look...... I think with whats there now and a good block, I could not go wrong.....as in a earlier picture, I posted one with one of the pistons and what they used at the time, had a slight dome on it.....but something with compr. around 10 will still be good and not require the hi test gas. Lots to take in and learn, but will know more as it gets tore down
Regarding the 4" bore on the 324 block; I have a '56 324 that is bored to 4". I was a little concerned about thin cylinder walls and possibly overheating on the street down here in Texas summers. I had the opportunity to ask "Mr. Olds", the late Joe Mondello, if he thought that would be a problem. He said not at all. He said he had bored many 324's to 4" + .030 with no problem. I think what Goatroper said about sonic testing would be wise if you were going to try that, due to water jacket rusting. BTW, I discovered that 371 pistons would work fine in my 324. The 371 stroke was longer but the deck height of the block was higher. 371 std. 4" pistons are much easier to find than expensive 4" pistons for a 324, and they worked just fine in my 324. The wrist pin location is within .010 of the same height of the 324. There is actually a small bump in compression from the .010. I would be interested in your set of 4" pop-up pistons if you can get them out in good shape with no ring land damage. "Rock on with your Rocket!"
I just got off the phone with the Olds elder. I barely touched on the Engle/Isky topic and will let it go. It is not important. Anyways, this guy's first car was a 303 50 Olds followed by another 50 with a J2, all raced on weekends at CT Dragway. He is a 303 nut; now has a 38 Gas coupe 303 2x2 with a "3/4 grind" solid cam he bought new back then. He still has the Thomas rockers, and says they held up fine. Trans is 37 LaSalle. I will be meeting in 2 weeks; he is moving south and wants to get rid of extra iron. One thing he is holding for me is a Selector shifter. He is showing me his cam card to compare and he has other engine specs to look at. He calls the front bearing snout for a Las and Selectors, a "candlestick" I never heard that before
Extra Iron......boy you get all the breaks.... I was just doing some checking around on those pistons.....I would really like to know what this whole motor was back in it's day!
the extra iron is mainly just that. But I will look for a 50 olds speedo drive for another hamber. I'd be pulling the pan on that motor. If he had money, maybe there is more to it. Pics of the rods would help. I doubt it's a stroked motor, but...
There you go again getting my hopes up......oh that's right, you were right the first time around..HA! Heading to the swap meet and carshow west of here tomorrow and who knows, maybe there will be a 54/55 324 block.....I doubt it, but a guy can dream!! When we get home it's hitting the stand and going to soak it down and let it sit for a couple days and then take her down and see what's there on the bottom end. I have also been doing some thinking on the du-coil......hmmm, I was told they can be a pain, but time to start some reading......just really like the look of it but I know if it stays on, the 3x2 setup will only be a memory, I have been told they don't fit with the du-coil setup.......any other ideas....2x4, cause with what could be left in the motor, not sure a fenton or edmunds 2x2 setup wwould go along with it.......go ahead, I'm all ears!
When you get the crank out, take it to Jay @ Crankshaft Supply in Minneapolis and he can check it out for you, also sonic test the block & heads. My gut feeling is with all the good stuff on this engine you may have a stroker in it. If thats true you really have a score, and the the guy that built it did have the fastest car in town until the muscle cars showed up. Great start on a real rocket!
Those are 303 small port manifolds. The Fenton is just an Edmunds mold after they bought Emunds out. Quite a few 303-only manifolds out there, so be careful what you grab. Just me, I like my Rochester 2G trips. I would never do 94 or 97 3 bolts, besides that build time is a bit later on that motor...so I will use that as a reason 6x2 is a bit much, and I am not sure if a 4x2 is worse, and at least the Horne and Cragar 4x2 are 303 I think. Be patient, the manifold will come to you at some point. I will add a pic of the intake mismatch to this post later. Ok, here is the mismatch; 303 Edmunds on a 324 head. This is the drivers side front corner. You can see that there is not enough manifold to cover the stock size tin intake gasket on the 324. You can make it fit with the plates I posted on another thread, but it is kind of counter productive. It's used when you really want a certain manifold, and don't want to get 303 heads
wow what a great reed and lesson on the olds I bet this motor was a real bad ***, I thought the hot settup for the olds was Caddy rockers on the 324 and 303 ?
F&J.....you have now claimed the rank of GURU with all the help you have p***ed my my, Paul and Tony have been great also.....but that is expected....... Like I say, you know the time frame I am aiming for, the motor won't be built and running.....so your right, take my time! Just looking for intake ideas and what would be a good streetable build using the internal of motor.....pistons.....probably will be different because of compression. I know it will help greatly to know what the cam is to dial it in......just looking for ideas.
I'd measure the cam first to see if it would be OK for street use. If it's too big, then you can look for other years of blocks that have the big journals. Measuring lift at lobe is easy with a dial indicator and magnectic base set in the valley. The duration is more important and takes some doing. You use the same indicator, but you need a degree wheel attached to the cam. Another measurement is finding out the lash ramp specs to know what the valve clearance was set at for intakes and exhaust. There is some math involved with the lash ramp that I have forgotten, but once you measure the ramp in lift, you can post that on a race site to get the adjustment specs. One intake worth asking about is a dual quad. I never got involved with those because I had one on a 327 over 40 years ago, and had a lot of problems. I barely knew how to change an intake back then, let alone set up a carb. I figure that if the factory had them for the general public, it should be possible today. The Olds 2x4 manifolds seem to be much cheaper, too. Heathen might know about your bell and valve covers.
I have a 324 block with a higher casting number 568972 and date code 242. The stamped engine number puts it near the end of 1955 production.
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