In the past i have always installed tempered gl*** in the doors of builds.I have talked with fellows enthusiasts that do not run tempered gl*** in their doors and have not had problems as far as cracking in the safety gl***.is this a good idea?i don't think so...what do you guys say on this subject.
For safety reasons I'd say it's a good idea, but our cars all had laminated gl*** originally so it is not a sin to run with that. The cost is what kept me from going with tempered on my '53. That and the fact that, well, laminated worked for 50 years so why go fussy. I have seat belts and don't expect to bounce through a window if I crash.
Thru the early 60s, most cars had laminated gl*** in front and sides, and tempered back gl*** starting around 1940. They switched to tempered side gl*** by the mid 60s, I think mainly because the stylists wanted it curved. Is there some problem with this?
I have my side gl*** tempered - had a different gl*** guy cut me some gl*** when my regular guy was on vacation. Big chunk came out of the p***enger window...
Laminated is cheaper than tempered. Laminated will NOT shatter into thousands of pieces. If the original gl*** was flat, use laminated. Tempered gl*** shatters, will cost more and, depending on the car, may not even be available.
tempered gl*** is not as finicky and can be had a little thinner than most available laminate so it will slide in the channels a little easier, but when it breaks it really breaks, I will be putting tempered in my merc.
Abo****ely use tempered, except the windsheild, of course. Why? Because when our cars got older, they got looser. Wiggles, shook, rocked, more and more. Lowering them makes it even worse. Gl*** channels and catwhiskers wear out and get loose. Or aftermarket ones don't fit right. Also when you chop them, the body can twist even more than usual. so tempered will take all this extra abuse and not crack or break. Even when the girl friend gets mad at you for spending too much time on your cars, and slams the door!
Remember-YOU CAN'T CUT TEMPERED GL***, period. Once gl*** has been tempered what you have is what you have.
You have to have the gl*** cut and fitted and then tempered. that is why it is more expensive. But it is true that you can't re-cut it after it has been tempered But your brand new door gl*** won't crack the first time a p***enger slams the door on the car like laminated often does. Laminated works fine if you have good channels and other window trim and are careful about closing the doors.
You can have "regular" gl*** tempered, and it's not super expensive. So, if you can find the perfect thickness of "regular' gl*** you could just have it tempered. Some British and European cars have used tempered windshields. Not sure if that's currently being done. There are some pros and cons in laminated vs tempered. Whether laminated or tempered, use one or the other. Early cars had "regular" gl***. The reason manufacturers went to laminated "safety" gl*** was due to the serious injuries people got from "regular" gl***.
Wrong. There are two types of safety gl***: laminated or tempered. The above situation describes a run in with plain ol' annealed gl***. As far as which you should use in your car, 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other. Tempered gl*** is stronger therefore will withstand greater loads. Also, the edgework on tempered gl*** is much nicer because there is no split between the lites of gl***. Laminated gl*** is still safety gl*** but in the annealed version is more likely to crack given it's relatively weak nature as compared to tempered. The advantages to Lami are cost and the fact it will stay together after breakage allowing you to still roll the windows up on the way home. Additionally, poorly tempered gl*** could be subject to spontaneous breakage if the levels of nickel sulfide are out of whack. (Happens more often than you think because of the recent introduction of Chinese gl***.) Finally, when gl*** is heat treated or "tempered" there will be a level of distortion in the gl*** that is unavoidable. You may or may not notice depending on the levels of distortion and your ability to pick it up visually. My truck has tempered gl*** because I prefer the edges to be highly polished and my wife insists on slamming the g damn door.
20 years ago, I worked in automotive gl***. To my knowledge, tempered gl*** hasn't been used in car windshields period. Can you supply references to your statement? Just for my knowledge. Thanks.
I pulled a windshield out of an old (60ies) mercedes that was tempered. Probley one that was brought in an not inspected. Only tempered windshield I ever saw and thats what I did for a living.
Texas Tempered Gl*** on Littleyork Houston Tx. take them your pattern, they will cut and temper any flat gl***..
Yep. That was done a lot till about the '70s. Some cars were available with either. I'm pretty sure the tempered version was to save money. High end cars were more likely to have laminated.
Lots of cars... Renaults, Fiats, etc... Export models were built for the US probably all had laminated windshields to be legal here. Just like the headlights were different. Sealbeam headlights were not legal to use in Europe, bulb type headlights were not legal here.
My understanding is that tempered windshields don't meet U.S. standards. That being the case, you aren't going to find to find a U.S. spec car with a tempered windshield. Years ago, when imported cars were exotic and uncommon, I worked on them. Parts catalogs for some cars listed both overseas spec tempered windshields and U.S. spec laminated ones. I know the Mini was one of those, but there were others I can't remember. I'm pretty sure Mercedes and/or BMW was another. While a manufacturer has to use what the law requires, it's unlikely there is anything illegal about an individual replacing a laminated windshield with a tempered one. Tempered gl*** is harder to break than the "regular" gl*** laminated windshields are made of. But when tempered gl*** does break it lacks the plastic catcher's mitt that laminated gl*** has. It seems like the best might be a windshield made of laminated tempered gl***. From what I have read that isn't done because the laminating process exceeds the critical temp for tempering.
Tempered windshields have never been DOT legal in the US period. The brits and french did fool with what they call tempered over laminate but it didn't work too well, the windsheild has to remain 85% intact to meet DOT, thats why they don't do gaskets anymore. Laminated gl*** is absolutely safe for any application other than sunroofs and windsheilds. On a side note alot of your newer big 3 have started using laminated gl*** in side windows again for acustic attenuation and safety of personal items, and its EVEN curved
Yeah, I've heard that tempered is stronger too. Thats why its used OEM in doors, etc. Because people slam doors. Tempered it also a bit lighter, because the total thickness is less than the several layers of laminated gl***. ( I've seen racers replace their laminated winshields for tempered to save a couple of pounds. Against the rules of most racing organisations, but they must have figured that every little bit helps. Specially high up in the car where it counts...) Having a tempered windhield brake is no joke, though. All of a sudden you look at a milky white mess that you cant see through. Instead of the road. Your options are that point, depending on your speed, to pull over to where you think you are on the road. Or put your fist through the windshield, so you have a hole to look through. ( and get showered by shards of gl*** that get blown in by the airpressure. ) I've had it happen a couple of times, and chose the first opition...
I looked it up. Before laminated, all windshields were plate gl***. Found it here: http://www.windshieldrepairresin.org/Automotive_Windshield_History.html INCEPTION OF SAFETY GL*** "Another manufacturing milestone occurred in 1927 when laminated windshields were introduced. Prior to this, windshields were made of common gl***, which shattered into sharp shards upon breaking. By laminating a layer of film between two layers of thin gl***, safety gl*** was made possible. PPG introduced Duplate® laminated safety gl*** in 1928. The film served to hold the gl*** in place upon breaking, greatly reducing injuries from flying gl***. It also provided occupant retention and eliminated cuts that arms and heads received from going through a windshield. The interlayer has improved over the years, as has the quality of the gl***, and laminated windshields are found in all cars today. Since 1966, all p***enger cars produced in the United States have been equipped with an improved laminated windshield with additional built-in safety. It is designed to withstand about three times the impact velocity of the windshield previously in use. Though curved windshields appeared as early as 1934, it wasnt until after World War II that many cars had them. By 1957, nearly all U. S. cars had windshields that curved four waysnot only at the sides but at the top and bottom as well. Curved rear windows, giving more styling freedom, were also introduced. In the early 1960s curved side windows began to appear. With them it became possible to include more interior room in car body design. Stylists were able to mold smoother, more continuous body lines. Fabricating techniques were developed to permit drilling of holes in side windows for anchoring and lifting mechanisms. More styling flexibility, and the opportunity to add more built-in safety features resulted. Tempered safety gl*** is used in the side and back windows of most automobiles on the road in North America. Todays manufacturing processes combine the forming of gl*** to the desired contour along with the tempering process to give the gl*** its required strength. When tempered gl*** does reach its strength limit, it breaks into smaller granular fragments with relatively smooth edges to reduce the possibility of injury."
Flat door gl*** made to my pattern cost $60.00 4 years ago. I scratched it for free during a mock up. any commercial gl*** company can order them from their gl*** supplier. 1/18/12 That $60.00 door gl*** just cost $116.00 today. Inflation ?
I seem to recall the typical stuff one had in one's car for emergencies in Britain of the '60s to include a small panel of transparent flexible plastic with a self-adhesive rubber edge. The idea was that one clear a hole to look through in a shattered windscreen and stick the temporary window over the hole, so one can drive to the gl*** installers without bits of gl*** coming off or rain getting in. Of course some people doubtless drove around like that for weeks. I only experienced this once. I was about seven years old at the time, and it was in my dad's Fiat 850 Coupé. A stone or something hit the gl*** and it shattered instantly, but it kept its shape. My dad could put his hand through the gl*** without injury to make a hole in front of him. That was obviously tempered gl***, as the pieces reformed menisci and therefore had relatively blunt edges; but it also seemed to have some sort of coating that let it keep its shape, unlike some modern tempered gl*** that will simply blow apart. I think part of the appeal of tempered gl*** to the European manufacturers was the tendency for plastic lamination of the early laminated gl*** to deteriorate quite quickly and turn yellow/brown. One still sees it in a lot of unrestored German cars of the '50s and '60s. OT, but something local architectural gl*** people have been doing is laminating a tempered pane between two plain panes, and then giving the middle lamination a good whack on the edge with a punch. The middle lamination shatters, but the outer laminations hold it in place. The result is used for high-end shower screens and the like.
I will stick with what I have done in past projects and go with tempered gl*** in my doors.when I originally posted the question.i did not expect so many points of view.great discussion guys . Thanks for all the opinions.
I just had all new flat gl*** cut for my 46 Olds sedanette, laminated windshield halves and door vent gl***es. Everything else is tempered safety gl***. All OEM gl*** was originally laminated and it cracked over time. Glazier recommends laminated only what he did for me as it will only just crack again and I'm not going to this expense twice.
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