Has anybody tried Zirgo's Ultra Cool coolant additive? They claim it lowers that engine temp by about 30 degrees. Does anyone know anything about it? Thanks
Tman is right its pure snake oil, No way anything in a can will drop temps by 30 degrees. Save your money and spend it on a well designed radiator, shroud and cooling fan.
*some* benefit can be had by lowering the surface tension of the coolant. That is really all of the coolant additives that claim to lower temps are doing. Lowering surface tension helps heat transfer a small amount.
THanks everybody, that's what I thought. For the record I do have a new aluminum radiator, a shroud and a 16" puller fan. The car is fine until it gets to around 90 degrees outdoors . At that point the under hood temp really goes up , even while moving at 40-45 MPH, and the car gets to about 220 degrees. This is on my 39 Ford and the hot air under the hood can't get out. I have cut up my hood to cowl seal into short pieces hoping that would help the hot air escape but it does not seem to do anything. I am thinking about a couple small fans under the hood to help blow that hot air out. Thanks again for your help.
"If" you have some sort of cooling problem with excessive cavitation, and therefore bubbles/foaming in the coolant, you might see some substantial gains by using an additive. As mentioned, they reduce surface tension, which will help with the bubbles. With a cooling system that is working as it should, you won't see much change. If you want to try an additive, consider Red Line Water Wetter which in my exp. seems to actually make some difference. You might look to see what can be done to vent the underhood area below the car, rather than above. On most cars, the area where the cowl seals is relatively "dead" in terms of airflow. You might, if it is feasible, investigate the possibility of running two smaller fans, rather than one large one. Sometimes it is possible to utilize more area that way. If you have headers, you might consider having them coated, if they aren't already; you can do this with manifolds as well although the temperature benefits aren't as much. You could also run an oil cooler. 220 degrees is not really bad, though it doesn't give you much margin (I am assuming you are running a carburetor). At 235-240 I would be very concerned. You could also run synthetic oil to give yourself extra room. Before I did anything, I would try doing a back-to-back comparison: take the car out & run it on a hot day (should be easy to find one ); go home, take off your hood, and go right back out. See if the engine temp lowers noticeably. If so, then you are probably correct in that the hot air is not being vented. If not, then your problem lies elsewhere. One last thing to ponder...on older narrow nosed vehicles, where the available room for a radiator is limited, sometimes the problem is that there is simply not enough coolant available to exchange heat (I'm not referring to flow, but rather overall liquid capacity of the system). In that case a thicker core, or a separate small tank, something like what was used on early '60s Fords, may help.
realy????? OK I use water weter in my mustang, it deffinatley worked. It was good for 10 degrees with out question.... I was skeptical, but it worked. I just put A/C on my 40 truck and I am runnin 10 to 15 degrees warmer when stopped in hot weather. I get up to 190... I need a shroud, and am gonna use water weter. SUmmit sells it, and so do most auto parts stores.
Yes really, the manual for my '57 Buick has operating temp range with 220 as being the upper end of the operating range... Oh yeah and I wouldn't trust a paper clip from the Hoffman Group
make sure your gauge is right first Do you have a panel on top of the grille (under the hood) that keeps the air from going over the top of the radiator?
I am paranoid about overheating or hot running vehicles. I have tried most of these products including Water Wetter and none of them has ever dropped the temperature. Pure snake oil in my book. Good ventilation of the engine compartment, directing airflow through the radiatior, sufficient radiator size and good old copper and brass radiators are the way I go. If need be I add a dual pass inline finned tube cooler for additional capacity and an auxiliary trans type tube and fin cooler with fan. Shrouds and electric puller fans work good. Pushers tend to block airflow. I am not so hung up on traditional that I will not use the available technology. I want to drive, not sit at the side of the road overheated. For new installed engines I am going to run Evans NPG+ http://www.evanscooling.com/ http://www.derale.com/basic/defaultBasic.aspx
I'm not too happy with Zirgo right now. Had there best fan just go out with less than 300 miles on it. Basicly told me that I was screwed for any chance of a warranty. After you have done all of the usual preventive things to the cooling system to lower temperatures, you might try this. First I'm not a dealer for Energy Release but I have been using it for all of the 15 years they have been in business. It was developed here in the Boise area and soon went world wide in the racing world. It has lowered the temperatures in anything I have used it in; including my cars, lawn mowers, wheel bearings, rear ends and air compressors or anything that uses oil . It is a metal friction reducer and attaches itself to hot areas to smooth out the metal surface. The shit works! I put it in a 400 SBC that was running 220°+ and it reduced it to 185°. During winter months I had to put cardboard in front of the radiator and a grill cover just to get the old van up to temperature so the heater would work. I had to quit using it in winter. It only takes 8 oz the first time and 1oz per quart of oil after that. Friction is heat and this stuff reduces both of these. I had ball bearings in my 38 Chevy front spindles. I had a bearing go bad and didn't know it until I was doing a yearly packing. Several balls had pitting but the race was smooth. You could spin it and not feel a thing in the bearing. Anyway just saying it has worked every time for me. http://www.energyrelease.com/products.asp?Area_ID=2
I bought one through Summit, not even making the Hoffman connection. It went out not to long after. The guy that worked for them that was on here couldn't do anything either. I called Summit. THey refunded my money and told me they have seen a lot of them come back.
Thanks to all of you who have responded with comments about my 39 Ford. I'll clarify some of the things that you asked about. First of all my radiator is a custom built 4 row aluminum one with a full shroud and 16" Spal puller fan that works as it should. No, there is no baffle that would stop the incoming air thru the grille from flowing over ther top of the radiator. I figured that when the fan is on ( it moves a LOT of air) then the engine is getting hotter and any air flowing over the top of the radiator would help push out the hot air that had risen from the engine to the underside of the hood. Someone mentioned exhaust manifolds too. I am using cast iron rams horn Chevy manifolds that have only paint on them. I am thinking about the HPC coating whaich, as I understand, helps keep the heat inside the manifolds where it can exit with the exhaust air and not radiate upwards into the underhood area. The heads are cast iron GM and the intake is aluminum. I have a vacuum advance distributor and the advance is connected to the port on the center carb that has no vacuum at idle but does have vacuum above idle. The car is all new and I have not yet charged the AC system so the condenser is not causing this heat up. I normally do not like any additives but who knows what might help. Yes, I am running carbs, three Rochester 2GC's. Now that the weather has cooled to the upper 70's low 80's the temp has stayed below 195 or so and in fact, it takes a good 15-20 miles of constant forward movement on our no traffic light rural roads before it even warms uo to the 195 Degrees . However the car needs to be able to operate when the weather is hotter so I would still like to solve this. Maybe I am making a mountain out of a molehill but I don't like to see the temp Gauge reach 230 degrees. The mark on my gauge is in the middle between 195 degrees and 280 degrees. In hot weather I have reached that 237.5 degree mark and even exceeded it a tad. Last week I spit more coolant out of the overflow tank. It had spit out the excess 50/50 coolant a month ago and thought it had settled on the level that it wanted to. I am running a 160 thermostat after changing from a 180 a few weeks ago. Quick review. My car't temp is fine, 200 degrees or less, it the outside temp is in the low 80's or lower. Mid 80's and up will make my car get up to about 237 degrees or so even while moving forward. I still think that the underhood heat can't escape and compounds the problem. A test to remove the hood is a good idea except one guy can't remove a 39 Ford hood just as a test, especially with Candy paint. Thank you again for your comments. I might try that Water Weter. Feel free to add any comments that you think might help.
you need that baffle plate over the radiator so that all the air in front of the car comes thru the radiator. Not over the top. It's easier for the air to bypass the radiator than to go thru it. And then it can't get out of the engine compt. this pressure buildup of air then hurts the radiator air flow even more. Remember these old fords needed all the help they could get when they han flatheads in them. Going back to what the factory did for them is gonna help a whole lot.
do not know about zirgo stuff, but the diesel truck guys do have something similar and they have used it for years and i heard it does work
I always wondered if these "snake oils" really lowered engine temps or if they hampered the coolants ability to absorb the engine heat so that gauage readings were lower. The gauge is reading coolant temp after all, not engine temp.
Like gas pumper said, use the baffle on the top so all the air is directed throught the radiator. Your theory is wrong and gas pumper has it right.
My theory wrong? I am used to that being the case. OK, I'll go ahead and install an upper baffle. While I am at it I'll install a lower one too. Thanks again for everyone's help.
Make sure you fit the top cover as most are saying. At speed, all of the air is going right up over the top of the radiator, not through. Eveybody would expect mr to say this, but another benificial move would be a louvered hood. Gets pretty tight in a '39's engine compartment with a small block and all, and that hot air needs someplace to go so that cool incoming air can replace it. As far as watter wetter kinda stuff, I have used it and found very minimal advantage. I don't think I would count on that being a magic bullet. The only thing I would do with a Zirgo electric fanis remove it from it's packaging, tip it to a horizontal level, and just like frissbee and throw it at as large a trash container as I could find for target practice... Owned one for about 1 month about 6 years ago before it crapped itself on a 110 degree day 30 miles across town. Fun, fun ride home. I would recomend that for any electric fan, personally.
Thanks. After reading the reviews for the Water Wetter I see no reason to try that at all. Yes, no magic bullits. My existing top baffle at the front of the radiator leaves about a 3 inch gap. I'll make a new one that is easily added to my upper hood latch plate , which is not stock, to reduce that gap to an inch or hopefully less. I used the car today in about 80 degrees temp and it took a long time, Maybe 40 minutes or so, but it got up to about 230 degrees. On the way home tonight that temp was maybe low to mid 70's and the car never exceeded 200 degrees or so. Gotta get those uper and lower baffles on.
Water Wetter SUCKS. If your going to buy an electric fan buy a Spal. They will flat out blow your hat off. They don't use them on Ferrari's for nothing.
Hello, I took a quick glance at this problem or the use of cooling additives and I think I have been down this road with a 1939 Ford Deluxe coupe AFTER I replaced the 1974 SBC out of a Nova with a blue print 350/310hp SBC with post 1987(?) cast iron "emissions" heads with the 4 center bolt hold down set up for the valve covers. <O All I can conclude is that before that motor went in....The engine ran 160F all day long and even not having any insulation on the firewall and the car being a deep Chevy Bolero red.....It did not need AC but after the engine replacement, an add on AC and a complete rewire of the entire car.....I could fry an egg on the firewall while sitting at a light with NO AC on. It ran 210F at an idle with outside temp of about 80F. With AC on, same setting, 230F was there only for a few seconds and they when it started getting up to 240F....I shut the AC off and prayed to God as I watch the temp gauge with one eye and the stop light with my other eye. My conclusion was simple, after talking with older coupes with small grill openings and no louvers plus Vette owners with those same design SBC heads, that these heads have smaller cooling passages so the plug runs hotter and you get a cleaner burn with less emissions that with the earlier SBC head design plus if you have a small grill opening, there is not enough air flow under the hood causing under hood temps to climb out of a comfort zone real fast. The main reason I had to fix the problem was the result of my driving style that I learned or developed through the muscle car era starting in 1960 on. Yep, I got a real heavy foot and when I played with someone on the street for a few minutes, I would get severe vapor lock. Yes, I can take the heat but not the embarrassment of being dead in the water after only a few stabs of the throttle. <O<OHere is what I did to make "GRUMPY'S RIDE" fun to drive, once more: <O 1) I run a 3/4" orifice instead of a thermostat (I tried all the other options). <O2) I put a plate in the V section of the upper grill frame just in front of the radiator to aim the air into the radiator/evaporator more directly. 3) I made my own air deflector to flow the air coming through the radiator under the car/engine and away from the fuel line and fuel pump plus I insulated the fuel line from the pump to the carb. <O4) I set the engine timing at the max builder specified setting of 15 BTC plus put in their recommended NKG spark plugs throwing away a new set of AC copper plugs. <O5) I replaced the single large electric puller fan with 2 smaller staggered electric fans that were mounted into a shroud assembly increasing my CFM by 1000, being able to clear the H2O pump stub and pulling as much air over the radiator surface with the shroud. <O6) I put in every know coolant additive I could find to help reduce the over engine coolant temp. 7) I insulated the firewall and the body floor with the best rated insulation I could find. <O8) I installed 2 5.2 puller fans into the farthest rear point I could go back in the inner fenders to pull heat out from under the hood putting it into the back ends of the fenders just back of the front tires. NOTE: I made up small deflectors to ward off water splash from going into the engine compartment. <O9) I had two 6 x 12 plates with seven 3 louvers in each and cut 2 holes in the inner fenders maybe an inch or so forward of each of the small puller fans. 10) Lastly, I added in a idle step up solenoid off a Vette application so I could achieve a smoother idle with AC on or off and prevent engine run on upon shutting down after a hot run or hot day. </O And at this time, or almost 2 years of frustration, I can run down the road at highway speeds with no AC at 160F and 180F with an outside temp of about 90F. At stop lights, of 5 minute duration at the same outside temp, I get to 180F with no AC and 210F with AC on. <O I intentionally took on a normal lower HP bike two times from a roll with AC on and once from a dead stop with no AC and also a newer Bullet Mustang on a roll with AC on and from a dead stop with AC off both times on a 90F plus day and results were great and I never got over 210F with NO MORE VAPOR LOCK! </O I am putting in a 16 oz. bottle of the aforementioned UltraCool additive just because I know exactly what temp this engine runs at so I want to see IF this stuff truly does anything. <OI know I stepped into some deep do do when I did that engine swap the first time I fired it up and watch the engine temp hit 230F in less 15 minutes of running on a 70F day. The best thing I heard was the sales manager of the aftermarket AC company said he had done 3 1939 Ford with later gen. SBC with add on AC and he had to just cut big holes in the inner fenders to get under hood temperature down by allowing it to get out from under the hood. Now I know why the older hot rods ran with no hoods or fenders or hoods with lots and lots of louvers in them. <OThat same gentleman reminded me of one big fact. We as gear heads, are trying to add in all the power and creature comforts that we have in our modern days cars and want them to perform just like they do because we have gotten spoiled by cars that were designed to be just like we expect them to be right from the factory. The only problem is ..We are trying to re-design a car that was never made to handle that much HP and then adding an AC unit on top of that. I agree with his statement and conclusion so I will live with what I got now. <OGood luck guys! <OPS: I did spell checks and proof read this as I went so if there is a FUBAR here and there .Please forgive me. OK?
If anyone things Snake Oil in a can will lower temperatures by thirty degrees they must also believe in the Easter Bunny.
I tried something when it first hit the market about 20 years ago. within about 10 minutes I had it all blown out on the ground. That was enough education for me, I fixed the physical problem by adding a second radiator and fan beneath the truck box and never looked back
Water wetter works.... I used it .... The technology behind it is the reason why.... Its not in the same category as Snake oil.... There is a reason itsbeen around for so long
Did I read correctly in post #15 that you have your vacuum advance hooked to ported vacuum? If so, it needs to go to the manifold vacuum port. Search this forum for vacuum advance. there is a very good (lengthy) explanation of how it should work. Advance at idle/low speed will help it run cooler. Also I have run water wetter in several vehicles and made no difference at all. I guess in my case I did not need it.
Hi......I tried that on my '39 Ford with the SBC I talked about yesterday and ran into engine run on problems like crazy when hot.The manifold vacuum did not drop off fast enough on engine shut down. So, I had to stay with ported vacuum and install that step up idle solenoid when the AC is on like the mid to later '80s car used for the same reason. By the way, I am hunting down a good 327ci sbc core to replace this extra large engine heater I put under the hood of this coupe.I will never again try to mix this generation SBC into a fat fendered coupe like this ever again. Buyer beware. Grumpy
The Jalopy Journal
