Patterson Racing Engines out of Kansas builds Comp motors that all spin 9k plus making big power. They do my engine block machine work.
Now, this is what i am talking about! I have had and still do have high rpm sbc comp motors - 406" and i have seen 11K in them. I really thought those engines were incredible until i moved into the funny car stuff. You guys are bragging about a carburated 300+ cubic inches shifting at 8K rpm. You really need to pay attention to what the alcohol cars are doing - a buddy went to Frank Hawleys school for his funny car license, they wouldn't sign off on his license because he shifted at only 8K. Those guys - like the guy i quoted above - are in a different world. A TAFC (top alcohol fuuny car) has about a 540 cubic inch engine - huge pistons - with some kind of 14-71ish blower (lots of different types etc but they make tons of pressure), his feet are on either side of teh clutch can, the firewall is a skin of aluminum with windows cut in it so's he can see if the engine is on fire and that firewall is part of the body - the first thing that you loose when bad shit happens. The driver can reach out and touch the back of the engine if his harnesses are off and the body is up - like when warming the motor. And those guys rpm like crazy! And they shift! We limit the throttle blades to less than 1/4" opening and hit 9500 in the burnout! Believe me, after messing with some of that stuff my sbcs' went on an engine stand and are collecting dust.
Prior to my race shop, the company I worked for we built at the time what was the ultimate high RPM small blocks. 377 Cubes of either Rodeck Aluminum or Bow=Tie Cast Iron Blocks w/ BUICK cylinder heads. See how many of you remember these BUICK corporate heads for the SBC. They didn't start making power till around 7000, and would just start to sing at 9000. They required special cams, headers, intake, and the heads of course. This was in the mid to late 80's, these and the corporate Pontiac heads were the way to make real small block power back then. Billet splayed 4 bolt mains WITH solid dowel pins to locate the mains were needed on all the blocks to keep the caps from walking at such revs. Rev Kits were used to control the valve train. For folks who might not know what a rev-kit is, they were basically a set of small valve springs used to keep control of the roller lifters, and keep them following the cam profile. All titanium Del West valves. These were truly spectacular at the time. Now you can buy a set of shelf 18 degree heads and have the same type of power and more for half the work and expense. TR
There is no other sound in the world of drag racing that a high winding SBC backed up with a close ratio Muncie and a set of 4.56 gears.
I believe the expression " stupid money " originated about after the first time someone built one of these Buick headed small block Chevrolets. I was going to start to gather up the parts to build one again a couple of years ago, then I found the HAMB and now I'm into Nailheads TR
30 seconds in is what 316 ci at 11000 rpm sounds like. The hood scoop car. Spun off the line. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7_l0Y3C6mY&feature=player_embedded#at=48
That's not near enough gear for a buzz bomb. I ran 5.38's in my Anglia and was going through the traps at around 8000 @ 120 with a 30" tall slick. BTW, if you wanna here 10,000 rpm shifts don't go to the restroom when the ProStocks run at the next National meet you go to. I really don't understand folks complaining about the demise of /MP and /G and then talking about how boring theProStockers are. Larry T
The last motor I built was a 352 c.i. Windsor motor.. (4.001" bores X 3.500" stroke) I threw 5 grand into that project and it only netted me about 460 horses.. I started off with a brand new B-58 "Lightning" 1995 roller short block, then came the "Twisted Wedge" 5.0L heads from Trick-Flow which I modified to fit the Windsor block.. Then came the Victor Jr. intake and the BG "Gold Claw" carb, .542" lift roller cam, billet flywheel..Etc etc... And plus all the other nickle an' dime stuff to finish the project..
You should have started with a 352 FE. A gentlemen by the name of Bill Heinson used to campaign a '64 Galaxie with a built 352 FE in the Super Stock class. Story goes that he would spin the FE up to 8600 on the line and shift at 7400. Here is a link to the complete story. http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1244492706/Super+Stock+352
I feel your pain buddy, I'm not trying to sound cool or Mr. Engine Builder, but 5 grand wouldn't pay for the block work of those Buick headed SBC's. And the heads bolted right on, it was all the other machine work to make them last. Reverse oiling, dowl pinned mains, 4 stages of scavenging, etc, etc. I should have pointed out, these weren't 7 or 8 second a lap engines. They generally ran an hour race, most of it WFO. Sorry I didnt know you when you built the 352. For what you spent, the 460 is respectable, nothing to sneeze at!! TR
Larry T brings up a great point about the NHRA Pro-Stock engines. NOT to go too terrbily OFF TOPIC here, but those are little {?} 500 inch engines. Yes they turn 10,000. Our last 632 pulled to 8600 on motor, that's years ago now too. My old friend/nemisis now builds..........get this................. 932 inches that dyno at 8100 RPM. That's a 5.750 " STROKE!!!!!!!!! TALK ABOUT O/T, MAMA MIA
How about something other than drag racing,an engine turning hi rpm's for extended periods. We all hate modern NASCAR,it's off topic...But those hand built custom engines are two valve pushrod V-8 making well over 2 HP per cubic inch and reving between 7000-9000 rpms for hours at a time. I think the last NASCAR engines based on actual production heavy duty blocks was in the late 1980's and they turned about 7500 and made 650 HP for endurance races.
The one I did was for a Fox chassis car.. ('91 Pony LX) It would have cost me more if I went with an FE...
Not bad for a 9.77:1 motor... I was still able to run pump gas with it.. (93 octane) the dished pistons were the stock nominal 8.8:1 compression type with 60 or 61cc heads... When I did the math, it turned out to be about 9.77:1 total! the heads had the 2.020" intakes and the 1.600" exhaust valves... One thing I liked about this motor is, it started making torque right from the git go!
I'm sure the nomad in my avatar was capable "back in the day" to reach that number! 287c.i. 6:17 rear gear.
They still have the econo style class racing??? I remember in the mid '70's when there were running dragsters with a small block and a single Holley carb... Anyone remember those???
In the late 70's the NHRA E&F Gas &M/P boys used 287" (283 30 over) engines. They were routinely twisted to 12,000+ rpms.Wayne County Speed Shop & Ron's Porting of St. Louis were the hot combination. These beasts used 6:17 &6:50 rear gears. High maintiance? You bet, but thats what it took to go fast in those classes.
I'm sure there were others, but this is the first car I remember routinely hitting the magic 10,000 rpm mark. Heavy flywheel and deep gears helped these cars launch and run like they had engines twice their size. Larry T
I once overheard a world reknowned Physicist say that it was impossible for a 4 wheeled vehicle to accelerate a distance of 1000 feet from a dead stop and go over 300 MPH and under 4 seconds. IMPOSSIBLE.
Ran a blown alcohol KB hemi years ago. It was 438 cubic inches (4.310 bore x 3.75 stroke). Decks were cut down .5 inches. I shifted it at 9300 and it would turn 10K in the lights on a good run. I'm presently putting together a 383 SBC (4.185 bore x 3.48 stroke) that will easily turn 10K in a B/ND dragster. Crank weighs about 35 lbs.
It's easy to prove (but not that important that you believe) for me. In my example (comp/SS car) mph x gear ratio x 336 divided by tire diameter = rpm. So, 154 x 6.20 x 336 = 320812 divided by 32 = 10,025 drive shaft rpm. The 7 inch converter has about a 6-7% slip, so add a minimum of 601 rpm, and you have an engine rpm of 10,626 in the lights. You can call bs, but it does not change the facts. Now the thread on how fast have you gone, that may be the biggest bs thread on the HAMB.
I'm working on a chevy 302 right now. 3474.......283.......forged..small journal....3.00" stroke, military tank use (I have no idea what the hell the Tank use means) CAT H-beam rods AFR Eliminator heads (210cc) Small journal 327 block JE forged pistons, with a little dome. The only thing I'm not decided on, is a cam. I'm thinking solid roller, but it's a street car, so that might get old.. Never been around a high winder, this will be my only experience around a small cube motor.
The Jalopy Journal
