i'm not sure that my truck really matches this site. it's a 59 f100 but it has a 460 with heads from a 69 or 70 lincoln and i'm not sure about the block. anyway, if anyone can help i'd appreciate it. the engine overheated a few days ago. i ran it every day since then for my normal afternoon ride. yesterday it got up around 235 for a few minutes while i was in traffic. went out a few hours later to gas it up. drove fine to the station. filled up cranked it, it backfired when it did start running it skipped like crazy and barely made it the block and a half home. some plugs were not in tight. changed the extremely fouled plugs, cranked right up. cranked right up today, backed out of the drive, and 50 yards later.......skipping like crazy. went back home and parked. fired it up and it sounds fine but can't take a load. i let the tank get pretty low before i filled up, it has overheated recently, i've been concerned that the timing might be a little too far advanced. oil does not have water in it, water appears to be flowing ok. i've only had this truck a couple of weeks. here's what i know. the truck sat for a year before i bought it, it ran strong until yesterday. dove heads edelbrock performer rpm intake edelbrock 1407 carb here's what i think pretty sure it's a c6 with a shift kit guessing 411 gears may have a mild cam i've never owned one of these big blocks before and i'm just not sure where to start. i'm betting the new plugs are fouled. i'd guess bad gas but i buy gas at that station all the time. i'm still thinking i may have a timing issue. may have a thermostat problem oh plugs were heavily fouled with carbon yesterday. want to fix the skip first obviously but need thoughts on the heat issue too.
235 is pretty warm, but I don't think its warm enough to hurt your engine really. If it's been sitting for year, it needs a fresh tune up anyway. A leakdown test, or a pressure test of the cooling system would show any small head gasket leaks or a cracked block much better than just looking for milky oil. another thing, sometimes backfire through the intake can damage the carb, or pop off a vacuum hose or two. check for the simple things first. The timing probably didn't just suddenly get out of whack, that doesn't just happen unless the timing chain has tremendous slack which could allow it to skip a tooth, or if the roll pin that secures the distributor drive gear has been broken. Both are pretty unlikely, but both have happened.
if it is fouling plugs and not burning oil, look at a carb rebuild and/or adjustment. If it is misfiring without fouling, look at your distributor/ignition set up. If it points or electronic? how does the cap/rotor look. Is the coil mounted on the engine and exposed to those high temps or mounted away from the heat on the fenderwell or firewall. I had an old coil that was very heat sensitive and would misfire. Once I replaced it, I never had an issue again.
For the heat issue, drain the system and figure out what you have for a thermostat, swap it out for a new/lower temp one as needed....I have had best luck with 180 degree. Flush the system with clean water the best you can to get all the old coolant and rusty water out, flush till the water running out is clean and clear. Put it all back together with the propper water/antifreeze mixture, to much antifreeze will not cool properly. If available, try one of the "engine cool" coolant additives. i have had some luck with them on newer cars running hot. Having your timing to far advanced will also cause you to run hot. What are you running for a radiator? That 460 is a lot more engine then ford intended the stock radiators to cool in '59. If it was originally a 6cyl radiator, that doesn't help your cause at all.
Did the truck have fuel in the tank when you got it? If it stank and had went bad you may be having sticking valves. Modern gas goes bad in just a few months. More likely your timing is not advanced enough or the advance in the dist. is stuck.
the tank had a couple of gallons in it when i bought it. it has skated the edge of running hot in traffic all along. it is an electronic ignition, coil mounted to engine msd box on a wall away from the engine. the water doesn't look rusty. it's at least a 2 core modern radiator with dual electric fans one runs off of a toggle switch the other kicks on around 190. the actual overheating is only if i let it idle. the hood has heat shielding material in it. i let it idle with the hood open and it never went above 190 while ago.
Ok overheating at idle is usually 1 lack of air flow through radiator or 2 retarded timing. Lack of air flow use a fan with more blades/larger and/or add a shroud . Make sure air is coming through rad core not around it. Set timing up a few degrees or hook vac. advance to manifold vac. Being it was cooling with hood up make sure the hot air can escape from the engine bay with the hood down. That leads me to think air is just circulating under the hood and not pulling through the radiator,again a fan shroud is the fix there. Good luck. I understand HEAT another 110 + day here in Phoenix.
yeah john we keep hitting 97 to 99 every day down here. we also get at least 65 percent humidity most days too. are you guys in the drought that my buddy in south west texas is dealing with?
john, it has two electric fans set in a shroud. i do think there is an air flow problem with the hood down, though. i've thought about a scoop but can't see anything working on that hood. so, now i'm thinking louvers. not sure how hard that is to do. the last guy has a think foil backed insulation on the underside of the hood leading me to think he was trying to keep heat in. maybe he was building this truck to drag race? i don't know. he also had a solid billet made in place of the small grill with the "FORD" emblem. i have taken that off. i'm hoping that will be a little helpful and i'm thinking i'm going to run some ducts from there that would blow down on the heads. right now i've got to figure out what to do about the skipping that has developed. i have checked the vacuum lines since the back fires. i'm going to pull the new plugs this weekend and clean them. i dumped a can of sea foam in the tank and i'm going to let the thing idle with the hood up for as long as it can take it. next step is play with the timing. then re-build the carb. my concern is that the over heating has screwed up a head gasket on the exhaust side. if i don't get it running this weekend i'll take it to someone and let them take a run at it.
Yep: Dry as a popcorn fart here in Phoenix this summer ,eastern part of the state is doing better. Less than 2.5 rain here so far this year 5-6 by this time is more normal. If you can ditch the electric fans for a 5-7 blade clutch fan big as you can swing. Some of those electric ones really don't move much air.
Backfiring can, and usually does, destroy the power valve in Ford carbs. I would replace this with a correct vacuum rated power valve and try it
ok, i did some reading and the carb that is on the truck is not suggested for the intake manifold. edelbrock performer rpm with edelbrock 1407. they suggest 1411 or 1413. also decided to see how fouled the new plugs were. some were already a bit fouled with carbon. those were gapped just a tiny bit less snug than the non fouled plugs. adjusted, still runs rough as hell. decided to check the gaps on the plugs that were in it when it ran good and they were gapped at a very tight .031 with some crud on them but a good bit of wear. now, i have dove-c heads. only made in 69 and 70 everything i read says to gap them between .032 and .036. i went in at .035. I'm going to clean these plugs good after the engine cools and gap them at .031 and try again. am i wasting my time? is my information wrong on the gaps? should i gap them tighter to account for wear? i haven't driven anything but new or close to new trucks for the last 10 years. i forgot about this kind of thing. at least it's not like when i was young and this would have been my only ride. i'm defineitely going to put a new carb on this thing too. betting nobody has one in stock.
ok, i did some reading and the carb that is on the truck is not suggested for the intake manifold. edelbrock performer rpm with edelbrock 1407. they suggest 1411 or 1413. also decided to see how fouled the new plugs were. some were already a bit fouled with carbon. those were gapped just a tiny bit less snug than the non fouled plugs. adjusted, still runs rough as hell. decided to check the gaps on the plugs that were in it when it ran good and they were gapped at a very tight .031 with some crud on them but a good bit of wear. now, i have dove-c heads. only made in 69 and 70 everything i read says to gap them between .032 and .036. i went in at .035. I'm going to clean these plugs good after the engine cools and gap them at .031 and try again. am i wasting my time? is my information wrong on the gaps? should i gap them tighter to account for wear? i haven't driven anything but new or close to new trucks for the last 10 years. i forgot about this kind of thing. at least it's not like when i was young and this would have been my only ride. i'm defineitely going to put a new carb on this thing too. betting nobody has one in stock.
1407=750cfm manual choke 1411=750cfm electric choke 1413=800cfm electric choke It sounds like you might be throwing money at it you don't need to, not a very big difference between the carbs recomended. is your manual choke staying closed when you start? that would explain the fouled plugs, no power etc.....
sounds like a few little things manifesting into one big problem. just rebuild the carb you have. don't throw good money after bad. get an edelbrock strip kit, so you can play with metering rods for a better tune. get a good timing light, make sure the balancer ring hasn't slipped
I had an SBC in my car that i had on and off again over heating issues with, as long as it wasn't real hot say in the 90's it would run fine and not over heat, but when it was in the 90's it would constantly over heat. Narrowed it down to the cam timing was off OR the cam was wore out, the car ran great and was real strong just had the over heating issues. Check your ignition timing and mess with it, it could have spun the distributor some and advanced or retarded your timing causing it to run bad now, also had this happen on an old truck i have that the bolt wasn't real tight the locked the distributor down. Just some ideas for you to look into.
Also with a thermostat make sure it isn't too cold of one. I had a heating problem and that was it, it had a 165* thermostat and it was open all the time so the water didn't really have time to cool in the radiator because it was flowing fast through it, I switched to a 180 and fixed it !
yeah, i was going to put a 180 in it. t=i also decided i'd pull the carb and build it even though edelbrock specifically says not to use this carb with this intake. it ran fine before the backfire incident other than the heating issues. i tried playing with the timing. i can't get the distributer to budge. what do you guys think about the gap situation. the old plugs were gapped beyond the suggested tight range by a hair. also having a hard time finding the timing marks my eyes aren't too good up close and the radiator fan system is jammed as close to the pulleys as it can get without touching them. i've never re-built a carb before. i took a few quadrajets apart and got thme back together and running before, though. i'm thinking i can probably do it if i find a rebuild kit. i have a brand new 1406 in the box but i don't think it can dump gas fast enough for the big block.
nail head wins the prize. the choke was about half closed and the cable appears to be fried. opened the choke and i have a BAMF big block again. new plugs couldn't have hurt. now i can just work on the thermostat this weekend. the question is how did the choke close in on itself? maybe the backfire caused it or did it cause the back fire? i know i'm going to run this thing for a while in the morning and see what happens. i know a good wrecker service. thanks for solving the problem that has been scaring me the most. i feel like poor circulation is going to be part of the heat issue since it idled for quite a while sitting dead at 190 with the hood up. i'm going to start taking the heat shield **** out of there and see if there is enough original hood to have louvers put in it. i may also play around with some duct work behind the small grill with the ford emblem and see if i can force some movement when the truck is rolling and keep it a little cooler while it rolls so it can sit at lights longer. that is a huge weight off my chest. i have a standing offer on this truck like it is that let's me net over a thousand dollars. was starting to consider it.
something so simple. i just terrorized the neighborhood to be sure it's running right. IT IS!!!! thanks for all the advice guys. i guess i would have noticed the choke eventually but i was sure i had bigger problems after the overheating. i used autolite platinum plugs when i changed them any thoughts on those? it turns out they were the same plugs it had in it.
The 1406 will likely run fine on the 460, until you get the revs up to where the engine starves for air (if you're winding it that far). I wouldn't expect the plug gaps to have anything to do with your overheating issue unless you find they are closing up, i e detonation). A friend of mine was having an overheating problem that was driving him up the proverbial wall. He figured it out last week. His heater core had failed (leaking badly) and he chose to loop the hose back on itself. It was enough flow that the water pump couldn't push enough water through the radiator at low engine speeds. He would have been better to cap the fittings off, as that would have forced the extra flow through the radiator. Point being, how is your heater plumbed? Do you have one currently? I don't know if the 460 has a byp*** hose or not (I know alot more about the SBF than the BBFs). As for a quick band aid type fix for the overheating, get a small container (washer bottle, small gas can, whatever) fit it with a cheapie washer pump and plumb that to a spray bar in front of the radiator. My gramps used a setup like that on a motorhome he had that would overheat going up hills. He used some 1/4 inch copper tube for the spray bar (like the stuff they used to use to plumb the ice maker freezers). He folded one end over and drilled some small holes in one side. You might try staggering the holes to see if you can get a larger surface area of the radiator. His were all in a row, pointing at the radiator, with the spray bar attached diagonally in front of the radiator, I would still do diagonal, but drill the holes so the water comes out both sides (at say a 45* angle from either side of center, keep them small so all the water doesn't just run out the bottom ones). A little black paint makes the spray bar invisible to all but the most astute. As for the backfiring, since you have another carb, try it. If that doesn't fix it check power and ground to the MSD, coil, and shaft play in the distributor. For that matter, what kind of distributor is it? A converted points unit, a magnetic triggered factory electronic (ala HEI Chevy), a Ford factory electronic "TFI" distributor? I've heard of those having issues with the module, especially if run hot. Have you checked or changed the fuel filter, or made sure the pump is puting out? Low fuel delivery will lean the mix, making it pop out the carb, but that doesn't jive with fouled plugs (fouled with what ?).
Oh, are you running a PCV setup? Backfire could have broken the valve, m***ive vacuum leak = backfires.
it was the choke. as far as the overheating goes, we'll have to see. i just ran up and down the road again for about 20 minutes and it never got above 180. no, i'd guess the plugs being fouled were due to the stuck choke and the overheating. I was concerned that my gaps were too open based on what i pulled out. but they may have been closed from the ungodly amount of carbon build up. i guess i wasn't clear, i was kind of treating the skipping and fouling as a secondary problem possibly caused by the overheating event. now i'm just back to the over heating. i wouldn't be surprised to find that there is no thermostat in the engine or that there is one stuck wide open. it has flow it just heats up fast when it's idling on a 98 degree day. may just end up being the nature of the beast.
If your city doesn't have a hood law, pull the hood off and see if you're still getting hot. Glad to hear the fouling was a minor issue.
Crud, sorry about that. I posted that from my phone and somehow missed the post about you solving the backfiring issue. Are the inner fenders louvered? I thought they were on some of those (large louvers, or slots), or did the PO cover them?
inner fenders are not louvered, the fire wall is not original, and the guy insulated the underside of the hood. it's a f**king pizza oven. it only got up to around 90 today. drove around town in stop and go traffic and it never p***ed 210-215-ish. on the open road 180-ish. ran it pretty hard and far. i'm going to dig into the thermostat tomorrow if it isn't flooding down here.
180 degree thermostat installed. cranked and ran with the cap off the radiator until it started circulating right at 180 like it was supposed to. topped off with water and let it idle with the hood closed for at least ten minutes and it stayed around 190-195. revved the engine for a while then back to idle it finally crept up to just past the 210 mark. raised the hood and it was down to 195 in less than 5 minutes. it's probably only 81 or 82 out today so i'm sure that's helping. it sounds like i have a small exhaust leak on the p***enger side. is that enough to cause it overheat at a standstill? dumping hot exhaust gas under the truckk can't be helping.
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