i'm sure there have been 1000 threads on "hot start" already. well......here's another one. (sorry) i've had this truck about a month. it has had a hot start problem that keeps getting worse. so, the pos cable from the solenoid to the starter was hot as a firecracker the other day. moved it away from the headers a s much as i could and seemed to improve. ran some foil wrap just to be safe. went to start it after letting it run for a while and same old story but the clamp explode at the solenoid end. the cable was too hot to hold at that end but the solenoid was surprisingly cool. so, was the cable just shot out from being so close to the headers? if i replace the cable and take a little care in how i route it is this problem likely to go away? or, is there something else happening that I'm not thinking of? again, sorry about another hot start thread. i just thought it was kind of odd that the cable was hot and the solenoid wasn't.
hmmm... my typing is on about a third grade level. meant to write "exploded". it was a hellacious arc that broke the clamp.
Is the wire hot from its location or from cranking the starter??? If from cranking, why is your starter pulling that much load? From prolonged cranking, or from internal starter drag? As starters wear, the bushing can oval, this will allow the armature to be pulled toward the field coils and drag against them, this will cause the starter to pull way more amps than it should. Is the starter hot? If you are having to crank and crank to get the hot engine started what have you done to address this problem. Is your timing, point gap, float level and fuel pressure all to spec?
You had a poor electrical connection between the cable and the terminal end, that's why it heated up and blew up. A new cable should fix it.
I agree that the cable just showed you where the problem was. If you cut it open it's likely to be green. A new cable should solve the problem but get at least a 1/0 copper cable. 2/0 would be better.
i'm chasing a few problems at once. i'm battling overheating when idling in park. i replaced the thermostat today and let the motor idle for 20 plus minutes twice both times it only got a tad past the 210 mark. unfortunately, right after i turned it off i tried to turn it over again and the second time is when it fried the cable clamp. this truck is lowered so it's not easy to get under it to check the starter. looks like i'm going to have to get under it now. i may move the solenoid forward in the engine compartment. right now it sits toward the back on the p***enger side. i can move it all the way to the front. as far as why the cable is hot, i'm not sure. when it's cold you just turn the key and it cranks right up. if the timing is advanced there isn't much i can do about it. i can't get the distributor to budge. i have noticed i can hear a slight exhaust leak on the p***enger side.
Had a similar problem a few years back, and after chasing it for two months, found the bolts on the alternater were loose. Tightened them, problem solved. Maybe its something as small as this?
the cable wasn't green but it does look a little tired. i'll jack this thing up and change the cable and get a look at how close the starter is to the headers tomorrow.
jeff, the more i dig around under the hood the more loose bolts i find. loose valve cover on the rear p***enger side. some plugs were actually loose (vaseline on the threads). these small problems are actually a good thing. they are making me learn the engine. i haven't played with an old car since i was young and an old car was all i could afford. it's a lot more fun when you aren't under the pressure of needing to get it running so you can get to work. the one thing i've noticed that i am not liking is that there doesn't seem to be a way to adjust the tension on the belt. the alternator appears to be in a fixed position and it isn't a serpentine. i'm wondring if it could be a little loose and not turning the water pump enough now that i think about it.
R Pope nailed it. The cable was heating up because of the resistance in the terminal connection to the cable. Electrical resistance = heat and usually the hottest spot on the wire or cable is where the resistance is.
hope you guys are right. i'm still going to route it better than the last guy did. it'll be tuesday before i can really test everything because this tropical storm is going to dump on me all day tomorrow.
What is your truck and what engine does it have. By your screen name, I'm thinking a 460. If so, you might have to put a heat shield on the starter. The stuck distributor also sounds like a typical 460 problem. Sometimes you can get them loose by soaking with penetrating oil. You might have to drill an 1/8 inch hole through the hold down flange to get the penetrating oil into the mounting hole. I have taken a hacksaw blade and cut the gasket under the flange to get penetrating oil in. Soak it for a day or two. Take a punch and hammer and GENTLY tap on the base flange. Try tapping gently on the vacuum advance to get the distributor to turn. Sometimes a thin chisel gently tapped under the flange will loosen it up. Ford had an attachment for a slide hammer to pull them. Have you checked the timing?
Both suggestions--a worn starter that is pulling more amps than it should, and a bad connection, are both possible. Since it blew the cable end off from the solenoid, I am betting the problem was there all along. Replace you cables and while you're at it upgrade to heavier gauge cables. If a battery cable is getting too hot, you have one of two problems. Either something is pulling too many amps through the cable, or something is causing excessive resistance in the circuit. A loose connection, either due to the nut on the solenoid terminal being loose, or the cable end being loose on the cable, will result in excessive resistance and make the cable get hot. Of course, if you have a bad starter that is ****ing too many amps, that will eventually damage the battery cable. In any case you need to replace the cables (I use 00), and if the problem persists, the starter is the culprit.
engine man, 59 ford with what i'm guessing by the casting numbers on the heads is a 69 or 70 lincoln 460. i'm going to get under it tomorrow and while i'm there i'm going to check the casting number on the block. the hold down flange frees up easily. i just can't get the distributor to turn. i also can't see the timing marks. i don't know if my eyes are bad or i'm just missing them.
38, the nut was loose on the solenoid a couple of days ago when i went to put the foil shielding on the cable. i'm guessing it was too little too late.
I had that issue with my rancherom and the ploblem was the starter, I put a new one and never had any more problems
zephyr, i'm hoping to avoid that but i'm not going to be surprised if that's what it comes down to. i'm hoping the loose nut on the solenoid fried the cable and changing the cable will make all my problems go away for at least 2 or 3 minutes.
If it's an early 460, it could be a higher compression version that will start hard, especially when warm, on today's low octane gasoline. 460s were hard on starters because they turn over hard. I'm talking about the flange cast into the distributor body that the hold down bracket clamps on. Many of these distributors were broken trying to move them. If yours is older, it will have a points distributor and the timing usually has to be set when the points are changed. You can change the timing slightly by changing the point gap. Newer motors with electronic distributors seldom needed the timing set so they tended to seize into the engine block. Aluminum and steel don't combine well chemically which you will find out if you ever have to change the water pump. Some of the bolts go though the aluminum timing cover and are often seized in. They usually break when you try to remove them.
engine man, it's electronic ignition but i'm betting the engine is older. the heads are of off a 69 or 70 lincoln.
here is what i know about the motor. edelbrock performer rpm intake edelbrock 1407 carb k&n air filter dove-c heads headers everything else is mystery. the odometer reads 3264 but the speedometer is not working but looking at the tag receipts the truck was only tagged in 08 and 09 then sat for a year. it seems like i read that that engine with those heads had 10.5 to 1 stock but i'd have to double check. i also have no idea what has gone on with the bottom end when the engine was built. so, it could very well be higher. for all i know the engine has been stroked to something bigger than 460.
I am betting on too small a cable diameter, and probably too long length also. Both can contribute to getting hot. The cables I see hanging on the wall at most retail auto stores would be fine for a little honda, but not nearly big enough for a hot V8. You may want to go to some place that has battery cables for large trucks... Best battery cables I have had are made out of welding cables, and short as possible.
randy, i never thought about the length. it ran from the starter looped to the front of the engine compartment then all the way back to the fire wall. it was a pretty heavy cable. the solenoid is on the top of a tire well. i may actually go through the inner fender straight back through again at the bottom then straight to the starter. that would probably cut 5 feet out of the length. i had been considering taking that part out of the engine compartment anyway. that kind of concretes that plan for me. it's amazing how you can stare at something and not see it. i worked in a machine shop for several years in a past life and a lot of what i did was trouble shoot machinery. i guess i've lost my edge.
save ferrets, i'm guessing it was bad idea designed to avoid heat from the headers. i just looked at it and 5 feet is a little off but it will probably take 3 plus feet off the length.
Chrysler started using electronic ignition in 1973. GM and Ford in 1974. Somebody might have converted it to electronic but usually they went from electronic to points as the early systems had lots of problems. Changing to electronic from points also requires a wiring harness from the electronic engine and an ignition module. It doesn't really matter. If it's electronic and the timing was set correctly it will still be in time unless the timing chain jumped. Depending on how often the oil was changed, the chains usually lasted 100,000 miles. Since it has had some work done on it, maybe the timing chain has been changed. Maybe it's an aftermarket ignition system. You mentioned that there doesn't seem to be a way to adjust the fan belt. I recall the adjustment being on the bottom of the alternator in a very difficult position to get at. Most of these motors had an air injection reaction pump that pumped air into the exhaust manifolds or ports in the heads. That pump might have been the adjuster. Another possibility is that it had air conditioning but they usually had a separate belt. When it was removed, they found a belt the right size and installed it by rolling it on or loosening the fan pulley bolts enough to tip the pulley to put it on. We did the same thing on stock cars when all we ran was a water pump.
i'm pretty sure the ignition is aftermarket. i'll be under this beast tomorrow and will get a better look at the alternator. it sits low in the compartment. if i think about it i'll snap pictures and post them.
issue seems to be resolved. put a new cable on and use a lock washer. idled with the hood down for around 15 minutes turned it off a cranked it 3 times in a row with absolutely no hesitation. the starter does have a little heat shield and is pretty far from the headers. i didn't measure the old cable but it was at least 4' long because i replaced it with a 39" that came up a bit shorter. also after the idling with the hood down the engine never p***ed the 190 mark. the real test is going to be to run it on the street for a while then let it sit at idle. of course it's only about 78 degrees out today too. anyway, the next step is definitely changing the front shocks. the top bushings are completely gone. i'm betting it wouldn't hurt to put in new leaf spring bushings too.
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