Q's about my front end,tires exct..29 ford(help)

okay fellas, i have been driving my 29 A coupe for a few months now after its build, i have some questions that i realy need help with,heres my setup.


29 ford ch***is,semi boxed, so cal dropped front axle, posies super slider front spring,46 ford brakes and spindles,36 ford wire wheels with BIAS plys.split wishbones mounted to brackets dropped down from the frame,49 ford f1 steering box.

rear is stock spring kickud up 6 inches,36 wires,older bias plys, wishbones mounted the same way,but are hard mounted at the axle (just wanted to be old style)

this car was built to look very traditional but i need some help here: from 0-55 mph the car drives fair,little rough but ill accept it, but from 55-75 it is unbarable, it gets a front end shimmy it seems like,it shakes so much i can look at my roof from inside and watch the body shimmy,

now, i heard about axle angle, i do have a slight tilt on it,but i have ran out of adjustment on the front bones,

will my bias plys realy cause this,and be this bad?

my wheels dont realy look to be bent when it drives down the road, just my rear has a slight noticable woble to it, but not the fronts,

wheels are balanced on the back side and i run tubes.

give me some setup tips please! i have a show next weekend.

axle angle,tirres? can i throw a madern tall skinny radial on it to just let me drive the car, i love this car and its so bad on the highway its realy discouraging me from the car. thanks alot fellas.

 

Do you have the correct support rings on your brakes to run the wires? If not, you will have flex in the wheel center that can eventually crack.

 

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=609005&highlight=wire+wheel+support+rings

 

1935 was the last year for wire spokes.
1936 was the wide five pattern.
Measure your wheel base on each side of the car and adjust the out of square by moving the mounts for the split wishbone

 

It could be a number of things, Your bias ply tires might need to be shaved because they're uneven, try running some steel rims, and radials to see if there's a change, if the wires are not true you will get vibration, also the spacing from the 40's brakes, they didn't use the wire wheels after about 36', the lay back of the front axle shouldn't cause significant vibration, the angle of the axle helps the returning the steering to center. (akerman angle)

 

Have you tried adjusting the sector shaft in the steering box to take out any slack there? Same with the wheel bearings in front? But I think those items would affect the front wobble at speeds like 45-55. Normal Norman

 

Of course I'm running the rings haha yes my steering box is adjusted. I would like to try different wheels and tires, just to poor to buy a set to try,

 

to bad you live so far, i have a mounted set of steel wheels and radials i took off a couple month ago.
rich

 

Just throwing the obvious out there, you have no idea how many guys do not know that tidbit.

 

Yeah flat 34 that would be nice.

T man,yeah I know what you mean. You have gave good advice to me before I ment no offense

 

Are you running an open driveshaft? Could be out of balance there. Do you feel it more at the steering wheel or seat of the pants? If a wheel was out of balance I would think you could see a tire bouncing of the pavement on a open wheel car.

 

Its not the drive shaft. And its a straight axle you will see the wheels bouncing regardles

Yes she's open drive custom made and balanced

 

I did take the small weights off the factory front drums cause the wires wouldn't fit with them but I don't think that would cause this much vibration.55 TO70 is just horribly hard to handle and harsh ride.I even dropped tire pressure it did help but not enough

 

okay, doesnt look like anyone is reading but i wanted to update,in case anyone else has this problem.

my father has a set of freshly straightend bend spoke wires with those excelseor radials that look similar to an old bias, first just ran the fronts and kept my OLD rears, then i went to the full set of the new wheels/tires and.....HUUUUUGGEEE improvement,that was the ticket, ill have to have my wires straightend and shell out some coin for different tires.

while im saving for that ill get a set of 80'ish ford truck wheels and throw some radials on it so i can drive the car this weekend and around.ill miss my wires and caps but i would love to actualy drive this car if it rides that nice,i have never felt my car drive decent,was losing hope in the car and now im excited about it again

 

Just because the tires are "balanced" doesn't mean they are correct. I had the same problem with my '41 ford, terrible shimmy at 55. Kept taking it to the tire shop. They came up with everything, bent wheel, bad brgs. after a month and a half of screwing around I took it to the tire shop I used to use and they rebalanced the tires in 45 min. and it ran perfectly. They turned 2 tires on the rims 90 degrees and bingo. I'd check balance first.

 

balance and good shocks make a world of difference. I have a friend that had the same problem with his A, it looked like you were dribbling a basket ball rolling down the road...

anyways a good set of tires and shocks (mounted at the correct angle of course!) and no more Oregon Trail!

 

I run wire wheels so I'm going to get them straightend first. And get different tires. My bias plys are still old. Balancing isn't going to cure them I don't think. I was told at low speed my rear wheel has a slight wobble

 

before you do the staighten job. These wheels can't always be balanced with a machine that locates off the hub hole. The best way is to locate off the studs, this way the wheel is running true to the studs. Find a tire shop that can do that for you.

Balance of the drums is important, too. My drums were only out .25 oz and fixing that made an improvement.

You could take the bearings and seal out and spin balance the hub, drum and tire together. Then you need to mark the position of the wheel to put it back the same each time.
Or do the hub and drum by itself. On the regular wheel balance arbor.

 

My son and I both run steel wheels with bias plys, we both had the same problems you have. We had them shaved and balanced on the car. All problems went away all the way to a Hun.--TV

 

A couple of guys have suggested getting them shaved... works great! Another thing to think about is using Dynabeads in the tires instead of weights on the outside. Made a huge difference on a couple of my cars.

 

" my wheels dontrealy look to be bent when it drives down the road,justmyrear has a slight noticablewoble to it, but not the fronts,"

Answered your own question

Bent wheel will cause you all sorts of problems. Don't matter what tire is on it.

 

Have you tried another wheel and tire in place of the rear bent one ? One bent wheel at speed can cause the whole car to shake,especially if its a rear wheel.

 

Anytime the question relating to an ill handling car comes up the answer is, it could be.........it could be....... or it could be. There are so many components that must be right for everything to work right that it really becomes a process of elimination. Some places to start:

1) How are the kingpin holes in the axle......the kingpin needs to fit snuggly in the bore.

2) How are the kingpin bushings in the spindles? Do you have the gap shimmed properly between the axle and spindle?

3) What toe in are you running and how did you measure it? (and sometimes a particular car likes TOE OUT )

4) What angle does your draglink run at? It needs to intersect the wishbone end so the two travel the in relatively the same plane.

5) Any play in the steering box?

6) Bent wheels? Put a dial indicator on the rim and spin it, or even a paint stick to see if there is any runout.

7) How were the tires balanced?

8) What kind of shocks and how are they mounted? Weak or improperlly mounted shocks will not control up and down bouncing of the tires and can let them start to shake sometimes.

9) How did you square up your suspension? If the front and rear end are not exactly in line they will be fighting each other. It is very easy to be off from one side to the next.

10) How much caster? Every car is different, some like less, some like more.

11) Are the wheel bearings properly tightened?

If all those things check out, take the car to a shop that has a tire shaver and one of those balancers that go under the tire and spin the whole rotating ***embly.

I also think the world of the SoCal front stabilizers. They are the best $ 40 or $80 (chrome) addition you can make to any straight axle car IMO.

Don

Oh, post some detailed pictures of your front end so we can have a better idea of what it is like.

 

sorry my last post was hard to understand, i was using my phone,

to answer some q's

of course my box has some play,its a 49'

just did the wheel bearings and load

my draglink is angle a bit cause its as close as it will ever get, steering arm is dropped as far as it will go

it does have some degree of caster, not sure the amount.

it doesnt run rear shocks, i just run rears.


but all this aside, changing the rear wheels and tires out was the key, car drives like you would expect a old car to, not perfect but its enjoyable now, and doesnt seem scary.

 

oh about the stabilizers, my father has one, never drove his truck, i think those look horrible, i was thinking about losing looks and trying one out tho, same as i think i have to ditch the cool bias plys and go radial, i built it to be traditional,but thats no good if you cant drive it.

 

I was going through the same thing on my '29. I experimented with the toe in and toe out. Wound up increasing the toe in and the car doesn't
shake at all now. I don't know if that will help you but it worked for me.

 

Louvers! Hey MSN,I know I was goingvto shave them but they aren't worth it.the tires are old rears and cheap fronts. The beads work?

 

Qoute: it doesnt run rear shocks, i just run rears.

Huh? Did you mean to say you don't run front shocks? If so, that is a BIG part of your problem.

As for bias plies, there is nothing wrong with them, that is all I have ever run, and my cars go right down the road. Everybody thinks radials are magic somehow, but on an early car bias plies work great if set up right.

Don

 

Yeah mentioned to say I run just front shocks. Sorry predictive textcon my phone does what it wants

 

Yes- the beads work IMO. I just tried them last week for the first time. I threw 3 oz in each wheel (15" 51' chevys w/ 165r15 BF Silertowns). The shop that mounted them doesn't balance by the lugs so I was going to take them to another shop for a "loaded balance" but they were booked solid. I went home and got playing in the garage. Of course I had to see how the new skins looked so I threw them on the 31'. I figured WTH, they say you don't need to balance with these beads so I went for a ride. WOW, after 20 miles (12 at 70 mph on the interstate) I am a believer. The tires ran down the road just as well as any computer balanced tire ever has. I still want to throw them on a "loaded balance" and see what it says but I wouldn't be scared to run these tires without balancing them. My brother just put them in his bias-plys on spokes and said he thinks it made a big difference too. He did say it was a PITA going thru the valvestems into the tubes but he thinks they work!