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Event Coverage Reno Air Races News...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by wingnutz, Sep 16, 2011.

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  1. storm king
    Joined: Oct 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,989

    storm king
    Member

    I saw yet another more detailed closeup as the craft neared the ground, Jimmy can not be seen anywhere in the ****pit. I think he was knocked out.
    I do want to say one thing about Jimmy Leeward; he was one of the most cautious pilots out there. He always had been. Over the years, if even a hint of something was going wrong, he'd pull out of the race. He was a consumate professional.
    Again, I can contribute nothing more than my prayer to God for those effected.
     
  2. Thats the one I was refferring to. Sad for all the loss, I am sure he was doing all he could at that moment.
     
  3. 296 V8
    Joined: Sep 17, 2003
    Posts: 4,666

    296 V8
    BANNED
    from Nor~Cal

    These three photos baffle me considering all the accounts by people saying he was purposely steering away from the seats?

    BTW
    I was to be there on Sunday

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  4. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member

    The last picture gives creedence to the speculation by so many who were there that he almost steered it away from the spectators.
     
  5. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    I just returned from my mother's funeral and have seen and experienced many folks' emotions over the last four days. Just as on this thread, ALL comments seemed well-intended, even if not all were perfect. I feel the caring spirit has come through in this thread where many more lives are concerned, in an accident that -- had my mom still been alive to see the news coverage -- would have hurt her tender soul deeply. We're all HAMBers. Let's pull together and keep praying for the living, the dead and those in shock.

    Doc, God BLESS you, man! Your two posts, filled with the voice of experience and heart, are worth their weight in gold.
     
  6. 30 Buford
    Joined: Nov 4, 2007
    Posts: 400

    30 Buford
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Very sad.My sympathy to the survivors and thier familys.
     
  7. Cut55
    Joined: Dec 1, 2007
    Posts: 1,980

    Cut55
    Member
    from WA

    The airplane lost its elevator trim tab. These tabs can separate with explosive force and may cause severe out of control events. Bob Hannah was racing a P-51 at Reno several years ago, a modified racer named Voodoo, and he also suffered a high speed elevator trim tab failure. The tab failure was violent enough to cause a severe pitch-up that blacked-out Hannah for several seconds. Fortunately Voodoo climbed away from the ground, although essentially out of control, until Hannah came-to. He landed successfully and lived to tell the tale. Rudder tabs also fail on Mustangs and have done so at Reno several times over the years.

    In Jimmy Leeward's case his elevator tab failure looks to have also blacked him out, known as G-LOC or G-induced loss of consciousness. I've had it happen to me when I was a military pilot and the effects are rapid. Leeward's airplane pitched up hard enough to cause the tailwheel to extend, its up-lock is not a stout piece. Leeward seems to have slumped forward over the control stick, probably causing the airplane to roll to the right as it pitched up. It is likely that he was not conscious as the airplane looped and then crashed. His age may have had an effect but it can happen to younger guys, as it did to me when I was 23. I was lucky to be at 12,000 feet and not fully unconscious, I just could not do anything about it until the blood flowed back into my brain. I was fully aware the whole time but not able to move my arms or control the airplane and my vision was black with my eyes wide open. I recovered within about 15 seconds but if I had been down low it may have resulted in ground impact before I could do anything.

    It is my opinion that Leeward's airplane was completely out of control due to his likely unconscious state.

    The steam emitting from the fuselage of Leeward's racer was from the custom boil-off cooling system and not part of the mishap.

    Sorry if this post if out of line--the mods can delete it if so.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2011
  8. Mr. Jean
    Joined: Dec 13, 2007
    Posts: 603

    Mr. Jean
    Member

    News now reporting 9 have died so far. Many bad injuries. R.I.P.
    Prayers going out to all that are involved.
     
  9. swissmike
    Joined: Oct 22, 2003
    Posts: 1,297

    swissmike
    Member

    Cut55 thanks for your insight.
     
  10. Thanks for your expert opinion as a pilot. Helps clarify things to us spectators.
     
  11. Cut55
    Joined: Dec 1, 2007
    Posts: 1,980

    Cut55
    Member
    from WA

    Agreed. I have had a knot in my stomach for 24 hours now.
     
  12. beebing
    Joined: Oct 12, 2009
    Posts: 1,449

    beebing
    Member
    from milwaukee

    Who's blaming who, whom or what? Look, I'm not going down that road. I just wrote because I was concerned and cared. Of course I was speculating.
    Just disregard that I served as an highly awarded Aviation Mechanic aboard 2 U.S. Aircraft Carriers (2 WestPacs) and had 3 friends die in Aviation incidents.
     
  13. Hey man, I wasn't having a direct go at you, in-fact I was saying that all we can do is wait until definitive information is revealed through investigation.
    Speculation has a possible degree of inaccuracy that may be unfair to certain pilots.
    Like I said before I have witnessed and attended three major accidents. Each one had apparent reasons for the accident, however nothing was certain until the investigation.
    As I have said lets not ascribe blame to someone that could be innocent. Also please don't anyone take my reply as an attack on you.

    Doc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2011
  14. Rozzi
    Joined: Jan 24, 2006
    Posts: 162

    Rozzi
    Member

    X2. Very informative. Thanks.
     
  15. Grumbler
    Joined: Mar 2, 2009
    Posts: 358

    Grumbler
    Member

    As an aircraft mechanic I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding how losing the trim tab can cause the elevator to snap hard up, the tabs are only meant to ***ist the pilot in balancing the load required to operate the flight control and the pilot should still have full control of the elevator. Aircraft have lost elevators completely and still maintained control. I'm wondering if theres more to it that led to the tab loss.
    Now having said that I have zero experience working on something as exotic as a clipped wing P-51 racer and may be totally out to lunch in my thinking.
    Sad day no matter what the cause.
     
  16. Tragic........even from this side of the world. Please...no harsh words...speculation is a killer. Kind thoughts to all involved.
     
  17. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 26,844

    Deuces

    Was this it???.....
     

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  18. 56premiere
    Joined: Mar 8, 2011
    Posts: 1,445

    56premiere
    Member
    from oregon

    my best wishes to all involved,a terrible accident!my son was in reno to go to the race the next day,he called and told us,he said his seats were the ones that got hit.thank god it wasnt then.i also have a freind that is a mechanic on a team there,havent heard anything from him.pray fr all
     
  19. Ed Zackley
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 120

    Ed Zackley
    Member
    from Hokeyhomey

    The faster a wing goes, the less angle of attack it needs so the Mustang would have had some nose down trim at almost 480 mph or so; lose the trim tab and suddenly the nose down trim is gone and you have a rapid pitch up. High performance aircraft often have a "servo" tab which helps to reduce the force needed to operate the controls. Later, on jets, they had hydraulicaly boosted controls. The forces can be enormous. A lightened, clipped-wing Mustang can probably pull well in excess of 12 g without breaking its wings. If he was conscious, he was doing everything he could to miss the crowd.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2011
  20. Yes, that was the Mustang.

    Doc.
     
  21. alfin32
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 1,588

    alfin32
    Member Emeritus
    from Essex, Ma.

    Condolences to all of the families involved.
    From a technical side, could someone please enlighten me as to the plane itself.
    Is it an original, highly modified P-51?
    Even the fuselage looks totally different to me.
    Again, a terrible tragedy.
     
  22. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Alfin, fair and reasonable question. Short answer, yes, and you'll find specifics aplenty
    on Jimmy's racing Mustang by just searching Leeward Packard (though there are plenty
    of other combos that would lead you to the same sites). One of the most obvious mods
    is the wing-span clip, down to just under 29 feet. It was definitely the air-racing equiva-
    lent of a purpose-modified hotrod, drag car, NASCAR or Indy racer. Finely planned and
    requiring a very experienced, focused pilot.


    [​IMG]

    Famed air racer, movie stunt flyer/star and entertainer Jimmy
    and his Packard-Merlin "Ghost"
     
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