spraying new old stock paint?

My dad is a studebaker guy, and he bought on ebay (I think) a few quarts of NOS studebaker paint, which I'm contemplating attempting to use on a '47 stude truck build I'm planning just to give it a bit of authenticity...plus it'd be fun to mention to the guys at meets that it's original paint.

Anybody have any experience with this? Lord knows where the cans have been stored over the last 50 or so years, so I know I'm being optimistic about using it. What can I do to get the best results, short from mixing the hell out of it, and running it through about 4 strainers before spraying.

Also, any tech tips on nozzle size or thinning ratios would be greatly appreciated. All my friend who's a career body man was able to tell me was that it was brittle, ****py laquer, and to get urethane paint, instead. Well i'd like original paint if at all possible.

Thanks in advance,
-Devon

 

theres a point of taking "original" too far
and would you really want a ton of good money ****ed up over a product that might not come out to well just solely because of its age or storing conditions?

theres new products on the market for a reason, its because years of testing and learning we have come up with better coating systems..

but than again knock yourself out, you never know til you try I guess..I would shoot a test panel and see how well it goes before i would lay it down on top of all your hours of body work

 

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but " original paint " doesn't mean 50 year old paint that was sprayed yesterday, it means the paint that the car was delivered to the dealer with. Paint breaks down after time and I would not use that paint under any cir***stances. Listen to your friend and get an original color in urethane and go for it. You'll thank him for the advice.

 

Is it nitro lacquer? Out of an unopened can? It's probably just fine. I shot some nitro black from a 1931 can. It can out fantastic.

Definitely shoot a test panel first to make sure the stuff is still good, before shooting the vehicle.

 

Glad to see someone has first hand experience on the matter. I will definitely be using a test panel. I just don't have an unlimited supply of the stuff, so I'm trying to get my ducks in a row before spraying any, if you know what I mean.

And, for the record, I'm quite familar with what the term original paint means when applied to a stock, 100% original car, but this being a hot rod, the body will be modified somewhat, therefore I was using 'original' as a stand in for the term 'paint the factory would have used.' This isn't a frame off completely original vehicle, and the paint isn't even from the right era of the company. It'd just be neat to display the paint cans with original labels with the car.

I understand that it's not what a lot of members here would do, or that they'd think was necessarily a good idea. I'm just looking for people who have experience painting with vintage paint because it's what I want to do.

 

That's different. If you want to use the old cans in your display I think that would be cool, and presenting it as original factory color is the better way to go. I didn't mean to imply anything, I guess I just misunderstood what you meant by original paint. The best part about building hot rods is doing what you want and if thats what you want go for it. Good luck with the project and let us see the finished product.

 

probably tough to find someone who has sprayed "NOS Studebaker paint" which is pretty vague.

nozzle size and thinning ratios would depend on what kind of paint it is and what condition is it in after 50 years. Is it mixed up well or are all the solids laying at the bottom of the can? Look at the can, be more specific and maybe folks can give advice other than the obvious common sense **** like using old paint is a bad idea.

 

I will definitely do that! Unfortunately, I'm away at an internship kind of thing (college student), so it'll have to wait until the end of the year until I'll actually be able to work on it as sort of a father/son project with my dad. I'm just trying to keep my mind occupied in the mean time. Living in an apartment with no garage is killing me slowly. Haha

I wasn't really sure how to word my intentions. I'd probably use something along the lines of "painted with original factory paint" or "finished with new old stock factory studebaker paint" or something on my display board, with the cans around it. Something along those lines, anyway. It's hard to word it without confusing people.

 

I'm pretty sure it's nitro-cellulose laquer, but the cans are a)unopened, and b) not in front of me (actually about 400 miles away at the moment), so I don't have much to go off of.

I understand that studebaker is a bit of an oddity, which is why I said "new old stock paint" in the ***le. I'm looking for experiences regarding anybody using any paint of that vintage. Not necessarily studebaker. I'll try to get photos of the cans posted for you.

 

Why? And who cares if it's 50 year old paint?

Theres trying, and then there's trying to hard.

 

I do. Details like that make a car more interesting to me. Otherwise I might as well build a brand new cookie cutter fibergl*** bodied 32 roadster or a honda civic.

 

Yea all those guys with "new" paint are such posers...

 

I've sprayed DuPont lacquer from around 1958 with no problems.

 

Try it and see how it looks, i probably wouldn't bother carting the empty cans around to shows. Paint it, drive it, enjoy it, and drive your civic when you break it.

 

Haha, unfortunately, I do not own a civic, but this will be more of a driver than a show car, but I do attend small studebaker shows every now and then.

And sure, new, modern paint would be ruined if frozen, but, as at least two individuals have attested to in this thread, vintage (pre EPA and VOC's and whatnot) nitro paint seems to hold up well over time.

I'm just looking for any tips or tricks to painting with vintage nitro cell, as I've never done it. I have painted using modern paint, but am curious as to the differences between the two.

 

According to the brocures and fliers I've seen on ebay, the 'stude paint was also manufactured by dupont, so that's promising. I appreciate you posting.

 

Try eating a 50 year old steak, and tell us if it's ok. LOL
don't forget the A1

 

This is Hard Core. Lol.
I have two cabinets of laquer paints I salvaged from an old dealership we tore down. I actually used some of this paint to do my roadster and flame job. The Laquer comes out super dry and dries almost instantly. It is a different experience for sure. I ended up soaking mine down with a modern urethane clear, which worked real well. I figured "why not", the paint was free. I've ended up with this "quick" paint job on the car for two seasons now.

 

Nitro lacquer is great; it cuts and buffs to an amazing gleam easily. The bad news is that it fades rapidly and requires buffing to stay nice. So you need to lay it on relatively thick, unlike modern enamels and 2-stage finishes. It also shrinks more than modern paints, so expect spider webbing/crazing at some point.

 

Spray a test panel, let it sit around for a month or so and if it's good, you should be OK. We shot a friends Model A with some old pre war Duco his dad had in the garage. This was in the early 70s. The car still looked great until 10 years ago when it was lost in a fire

 

If it is factory paint from Studebaker it is some sort of laquer or should be. I have shot old laquer, yes you need to mix it well and yes it needs to be strained. It is not going to go on like one shot enamel that is why you saw so many old shoe cars that boasted many coats of hand rubbed laquer. laquer is a little on the thin side compaired to enamel.

You will need to open the cans and see if the paint has broken down, then try mixing it. Paints like laquer are just solid particles held in suspension. The vehicle that carries the solids to the autobody is just a solvent in the case of laquers it is laquer thinner. As long as the vehicle has not evaporated you should be good.

The factories by the later '50s and earlier '60s were using acrilic laquer. The general rule of thumb on these was 3:1. that would be three parts thinner to one part paint. If you have some evaporation going on you may need to thin it a little more than that. Maybe tryand find someone who has shot laquer before to help you out.

 

I used to shoot Nitrocellulose lacquers a lot working on prewar Ford club cars back in the 70s. It is some of the easiest paint product I ever used and quite nice if properly applied. Modern thinners and reducers are temperature rated whereas we used to use retarder to slow lacquer dry times to allow better flow. I have seen guys shoot it so dry that the surface looked like sandpaper and still turn out a decent looking job after a lot of colorsanding. I am lazy when it comes to doing unnecessary work which is why I recommend looking around for retarder when you start this project. I like the new paint products we have now but I don't think I have ever found anything that produces a better looking job. The newer paints have better durability but I have worked on 60 year old lacquer jobs that still look good.

 

I used to hang out with my dad and his hot rod buddies when I was a kid (early 70s) and one of them was a great painter. I remember him putting me to work color sanding fenders on a black 40 Ford coupe that came out with a mirror finish that seemed 50 feet deep. What was interesting was that when he sprayed it, it was like the post above mine described....not shiny at all.

I also remember him shooting a metallic red color on a 60 Corvette that was set up to run 1/4 mile drags. At the time, it was just a used Corvette....nothing too special.

I've talked to that same guy recently and we were talking about shooting that old lacquer and he was reminiscing about how easy it was to work with.

Anyway....this probably doesn't help the OP very much, but the thread brought back some cool memories of hanging with some old hotrodders nearly 40 years ago.

 

Don't thin the paint 3 to 1. It is much to thin. I forgot whaT THE RATIO IS. BUT WHEN ACRLIC LAQUERE CAME ALONG, WE THINNED IT THE SAME AS STRIGHT LAQUERE AND IT CAME OUT OF THE GUN IN STRINGS AND COB WEBS!

I would start with 10% and go up slowly.
Of course, you could always call DuPont.

 

Wow.

That was a hell of a lot of great info and tips. I really appreciate it. I may go the urethane clear route, but we'll just have to see what happens with the test panels first.

Any ideas on how to figure out if it's nitro or acrylic?

 

I am reaching back really far in memory but I want say that we used to thin nitrocellulose lacquer 1/1 or there abouts. Acrylic Lacquers weren't introduced until the latter 1950s if that helps any.

This is an extract from WIKI which isn't always accurate but might help.

"Quick-drying solvent-based lacquers that contain nitrocellulose, a resin obtained from the nitration of cotton and other cellulostic materials, were developed in the early 1920s, and extensively used in the automobile industry for 30 years."

Acrylic on the other hand is a manmade polymer (plastic) which is more durable. Your container should reference one of the other. If it is Dupont acrylic the can most likely will have the word Lucite on the label somewhere. I can't remember any of the other trade names right now for acrylic products.

Experiment and enjoy.

 

Thanks! I'll call my dad and get him to read it off to me, or send photos and post 'em here.

 

I'm not a professional sprayer but the guy who showed me how (late 1970s) was then of the old school, he would apply cellulose paint with a couple of coats 50/50, then allow to flash off, the next couple of coats would be 40/60 (more thinner) then 30/70 the final coat would be sprayed very quickly and very wet (especially with black) on top of the previous coat this last coat of paint would quite often be the remains of the paint with a lot of thinner added quite often it would be little more than tinted thinner, this he would call a double header, its purpose apparently was to soften the earlier layers and avoid the dry sandpaper paint you mention, the car would then be left alone for a couple of days dependent on the weather, or overnight if it was warm, colour sanded with 1200 paper only if necessary to remove the worst orange peel, then polished using Br***o metal polish and a piece of toweling or nappy material, the finish would always be smooth and shiny the car would then be washed to remove any residues and polished with "simonize" wax polish.

 

I was still doing lacquer up until 15 years ago, including nitro. You cannot beat the look of black nitrocllulose lacquer.
First, the paint is most likely still good. Lacquer can even be dried up in the can, as still be remelted by adding lacquer thinner to reuvenate it.
Lacquer is very easy to shoot, but there are inherent problems with it. This is the paint that truly cannot be sprayed when it is rainy or humid ( without adding a retarder to avoid blushing). Also due to the high amount of thinner added to it, it goes on very thin, and you have to shoot many coats for good coverage, I used to do at least 10, up to 20.
This is also the paint that spurred on the urban legend of "sanding between every coat" paint jobs.
No you don't have to sand betwen every coat, in fact you'd probably remove the entire coat if you did. BUT....lacquer, and it's agressive solvent, used to swell up the primer/redlead underneath it, a LOT. So when it smoothed out when first painted, it would also shrink down a lot when it dried. And since it "dried", not cure, as today's paints, it continued to dry for a LONG time. And continued to shrink. So the car would get wavy and sand scratches would keep appearing.
To avoid as much of this as possible, you would put on 5-10 coats, let it dry a week or so, sand it to open the surface, and level the results from the initial shrinking, and put on another 5-10. Do this sometimes 3-5 times, for a real nice job. Then hopefully, you avoided all the shrinking and got a good paint job. You don't really HAVE to, but you should for an outstanding job.
Now lacquer does dry kind of dull, compared to today's paints, or enamels. So you HAD to sand and buff it.
The good part is, that is is MUCH easier to do than today's harder paints. All you had to do was a 600 grit wet cut, and buff with white rubbing compound, and perhaps a polish, or glaze (Liquid Ebony!!!!) to finish up. And it DID look like a mirror!
It is also easy to touch up, as said before, even dry, it can be remelted. So touching it up, you actually melted the new paint into the old, and made for an easy, seamless repair.
Drawbacks....more fragile than today's, also less resistant to abrasion, and chemicals. Needs to be polished/waxed often, or it dulls and dries out. If it is put on too thick, it can easily crack, even if done correctly, as it ages, it will shrink and crack eventually. Though if taken care if, will last for years...my last nitro job is 20+ years old, and while showing it's age, still looks pretty good.