How do you pull the piece numbered 4851 in the bottom right corner and what is it actually called? I swapped the entire carrier to get 3.0 gears and the snout on the new carrier is about an inch or maybe a little more shorter than the old one. The slip yoke on the other end of the shaft needs to slide in more. I would like to just swap the snouts and be done with it. John
It is the pinion yoke, held on with a big nut (lock nut in the picture). It can be swapped if the spline count one the two pinions are the same. You may have to readjust the pinion preload however, because of item 4662 the collapsible spacer.
I always called it a yoke. It's usually a press fit. Pullers can be bought or made,but I usually just take the nut off and knock it loose with a brass hammer. Like fauj said,just tighten the nut after the swap. Don't over-tighten or you will crush the collapsable spacer (also called a crush sleeve). Before you remove the yoke,hold the ring gear with one hand and twist the yoke rapidly back and forth to "feel" how much backlash is there. Then after you swap the yoke,just tighten a little at a time till it feels the same. If you use an impact to tighten,it is very easy to go too tight. If you get it too tight,you can't just loosen it and start over,you will need a new crush sleeve.
All 9" pinions are the same internally (28 spline ),,, Yes, Fauj is correct>>>> the crush sleeve will need to be replaced and "crushed" to the proper preload. If you have an old timer (or racer ! ) in your neighborhood that knows 9 " stuff...we know HOW and WHERE to put a .060 shim on an old crush sleeve and just REcrush them...Comes from lots of saturday repairs between races ! Dave
I would pull the third member. You cannot get away from the collapsible spacer replacement. You really need to set this up on a bench, torque the pinion yoke nut and check the correct crush by means of turning the pinion yoke with an inch/pound torque wrench, Rhys.
Sounds like I'd be better off just putting the 3.73's back in. I'm usually not one to take the easy way out but this just seems pretty intimidating.
I drilled holes in a piece of flat stock and bolted it to the "yoke". I also drilled a hole in the center for a nut and bolt. The bolt should be long enough to push on the pinion shaft. This piece becomes a puller and has worked fine for me. Good luck.
Look up Bad Shoe Productions. They sell a step by step video for completely rebuilding 9 in rear ends. Really good easy to follow step by step info. I've used it and referred back to it to build several rearends with no problem. It takes all of the mystery out.
I've seen their Ford C4 video. If the 9" one is 1/2 as good, I'd be money ahead. Thanks, I didn't think of that.
Just finished watching the first hour of the Bad Shoe video. I have most of the tools. I now have the instruction. I will probably still just throw the original differential back in. Seems like the shortest distance between the two points.
On the 9" you can just pull out the front bearing support, change the yoke and install a new crush sleeve or shim it if the old one does not give proper bearing preload when tightened to spec, spec is 170 ft lbs http://www.selectric.org/manuals/rearend/indexford.html It's really not too hard to do this
On our circle track stuff we don't even use a crush washer, the pumpkin is built to use a solid spacer so you can change yokes without having to worry about the the crush, just swap yokes and hammer the nut back on with a impact. To my knowlege there are at least 4 different yokes for the 9", two short yokes (one narrow, one wide) and two long yokes (one narrow, one wide). The narrow yokes take a 3 7/32" u-joint, the wides take a 3 5/8" u-joint. Edit to add: I just remembered there are also yokes that take a 1 1/16" u-joint cap and some take a 1 1/8" u-joint cap.
Dont get spooked you can do it the yoke will pull off easily with a puller but will most likely tap off with a couple light hammer blows. Replace your seal with a new one be sure to grease the lip take your old seal with you when you get a new one there is more than one style slide on your your proper yoke use red loctite on your old nut and give it a moderate zap with a impact wrench that sleeve will not crush easily and chances are your adjustment will not change make sure you can start to twist the pinion back and forth with a light grip easily If you get your bearing too tight(this is unlikely) you will have to replace or shim that crush sleeve as the others have suggested but this will work 9 out of 10 times NO FEAR it wont feel a thing
I'm with Smitty, if you don't use an impact rattle gun you will not get any additional crush on the collapsible spacer! Done this plenty of times when chassing gear ratios.
John, Please be careful, if you start messing with things like crush sleeves on a 9" you are in for a world of technical hurt and lot$a future broken 9" part$$$. Here's something to think about, --------------------------------------------------------- Here's a typical Ford Transmission, notice the yolk (at far right) on the Tail shaft of this transmission... The Yolk slides on/off the Ford Transmission's Tail shaft Just like this... Now, it's important to note that Ford made several lengths of Ford Transmission Tailshaft Yolks so there is a short tranny yolk, a long tranny yolk and some in-between. Handily, there are also long and short 9" differential yolks just as you have found that your diff yolk is now the wrong -short- length..... -now if you have a short 9" diff yolk you just might get lucky and be able to swap your trannies corresponding short yolk for a longer one which in turn moves the driveshaft back about an inch or two to match up with a shorter 9" diff yolk I have found long transmission yolks on older Ford Vans and Trucks (among others). The splines on the transmissions output shaft must be matched for a long yolk to be swapped on to your transmission in place of it's short yolk. But that's not a big deal because Ford used the same spline/yolk for years so your chances of finding a longer tranny yolk under a scrap yard Ford are decent. (It's possible that Ford C4 or C6 Automatics and/or many different Ford Standards/T5's//Overdrives Output Shaft Yolks might fit and swap right in) On the other hand, You definitely do not want to be fooling around with pulling off the 9" diff's yolk and re-installing new or used crush sleeves as new crush sleeves have to be precisely installed in 3 stages to ~320ish+ foot pounds of torque and most people don't have a 1 inch torque wrench to accurately accomplish the installation even if they knew what they were doing. -Old crush sleeves have to be installed with considerably less torque while constantly/carefully checking the break away torque of the differential.... -That said, If and when a new or a used crush sleeves is not installed or torqued properly, it Will without a doubt eat your ring and pinion gears within a few thousand miles. It is just my humble opinion but I strongly suggest that unless you have an experienced Ford Differential Specialist (with his trusty 1 inch drive torque wrench in hand) ready and at your disposal, you should not attempt to remove the diff yolk. (Please Tread Lightly as this will be the difference between a long lasting (100,000 mile) differential and one that eats ring gears). ----Now if you are lucky and you can spot a long transmission yolk at your local pick in pull and it has the same spline count as your transmission then you might also get lucky in displacing your drive shaft just enough to attach to the short differential yoke... To get an idea of the many different lengths available for Ford Tranny Tailshaft Yolks: Click this Link http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/c76_ford.html Here's a typical Ford Transmission yolk's dimensions, besides the spline count and the Barrel diameter, you will be most concerned with finding a longer Barrel Length to replace the short? one your transmission already has. This in turn will move the drive shaft rearward to compensate for a short Differential yolk..... 1310 Series 28 spline Transmission Slip Yoke for Ford C-4, T-5, Top Loader and Tremec. Length to center of u-joint... Dimension #1 = 6 inches Barrel Diameter... Dimension #2 = 1 1/2 inches Barrel Length... Dimension #3 = 4 1/4 inches U-joint cap diameter... Dimension #4 = 1 1/16 inches U-joint width... Dimension #5 = 3 7/32 inches Series... 1310 Spline count... 28 Note* The difference between the 1310, 1330 and 1350 series yolks is in the width of the "Y" which means that a 1350 accepts a larger/wider (Stronger) U joint than the skinnier "Y" of the 1330 or 1310 Yolk. Your existing Drive shaft will have either a 1310, 1330 or 1350 width yolk on it's ends as will your differential. Match your drive shafts yolk/width with your tranny's output yolk etc. and please forget about those that tell you to pull the differential yolk and Throw Away The Very Necessary Crush Sleeve , you are not building your car to last for 10 miles around a circle track and neither did Ford. If you do have questions, the guys at dennysdriveshaft.com can help you select the proper tranny yolk as there is an easy way to measure what you need based on your existing driveshaft/length/yolks and your existing diff/yolk as currently installed. all just my humble opinion based on stuff I used to remember before I inhaled all that lead based paint. moe
. One last thing, Your drive shafts yolks are measured as 1310, 1330 or 1350 (that's if it is a Ford shaft) If you have a 1330 shaft and you find a 1310 transmission yolk you can use a combination U-Joint to connect the 2 different sizes together, and that's pretty handy. (see the links below for more info)..... In other words, you are not stuck in having to find the same size yolk as your existing drive shaft, -thru careful U-Joint selection you can mix and match different yolk widths with different drive shafts: (The larger the yolk and U-Joint, the more torque they will handle. -always try for larger 1350 or at least 1330 U-Joints when possible) http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/c139_combo_joint_1310_to_1330..outside_to_outside..3_732_x_3_58.html http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/c142_combo_joint_1310_to_1350..outside_to_outside..3_732_x_3_58.html .
I never knew about the longer slip yoke. Thanks, I have an extra slip yoke out in the garage that came out of a 68 F-100 that the PO had installed a T-5 in. I do know it fits my C-4. I don't know if it's any longer than the one that's in there now. I have to pull the transmission anyway so the shaft's gonna have to come out. Thanks
not a problem, sometimes it's easy to overlook the simple things and that often gets us into a bigger pot of burbling stew. .
I guess there is one more thing a guy should consider here. You are going to need new U-Joints. Irregardless of whether you get straight 1330 or combination 1310 to 1330 U-Joints etc, They come in 2 basic garden varieties: The non serviceable U-Joint (it doesn't have a grease nipple) And the serviceable U-Joint (with a grease nipple) Believe it or not, the non serviceable U-Joint is the stronger and longer lasting of the 2 U-Joints. Consider this: A 1310/1330/1350 series U-Joint either comes with a hole tapped and drilled for a grease nipple or it does not... In drilling a hole into the body of a U-Joint (to insert a grease nipple), you weaken the body considerably. -Something like 30%. You might want to Select a non serviceable or solid bodied U-Joint for the strongest drive train available. jmho and your mileage may very moe .
moefuzz ive said that non servicable joints were stronger for yrs. but all i got was your full of shit replies. im glad someone else said it.of course the one who gave me the most shit is dead and now i cant tell him.
Most guys (myself included) have a hard time relating to something especially if they can't visualize or see it for themselves so it's always nice to be able to back up what you say with a few pics or at least with a little explanation using some common engineering .. --------------- -From an engineering point of view, anytime you breach a solid member or material you weaken it by altering the lines of stress. In a flat and straight piece of plate/sheet steel the lines of stress are more or less linear and each line is parallel to each other. In the pic below we have a flat plate (or sheet) with the different shades/colors representing that the sharp corners/edges show some stress and the center of the plate shows little to no stress. But if you drill or cast holes into the above plate you alter the lines of stress which causes the once parallel and linear lines to compress and/or to expand. Notice the increased stress indicated by the dramatic color changes around the newly breached/drilled hole.. It's important to remember that lines of force/stress must never appear broken, bent or sheared, in the pic below we see that the lines are not broken but they have indeed been contorted to go around the breached hole. -If the lines of stress stop or bend at a an angle (instead of making a gradual curve) then you would have a break, sharp bend or shear of the plate. In the image below, The hole in the center indicates that the plate has been breached and every/all existing lines must now go around the perimeter of the hole. The hole itself when viewed in the color pic (above) helps us visualize just how much stress is built up around the breached hole. To sum it all up, In drilling and taping a hole into the side of a U-Joint you alter the reasonably straight/linear lines of stress and this causes compression/expansion of the existing lines and that compression will be where the U-Joint breaks when you apply much additional pressure using your throttle and your engines torque. Alternately, you can recast the part to have a +/-30% thicker body to make up for the addition of holes/stress but that increases cost of productivity by the same 30%. From both a cost of manufacture and a longevity viewpoint, the smart thing to do is to not breach the body of the U-Joint and to not alter or compress the lines of stress while alternately keeping the body of the U-Joint within a reasonable size/weight and dimension. -As car guys we can easily see that the strongest part is one that has no holes, cracks or sharp bends/edges. A U-Joint is what it is, it's an odd shape that is relatively strong in it's basic form but by breaching the body we weaken the structure by approximately 30%. In layman's terms, if your non serviceable, non grease nippled U-Joint is designed to occasionally see a full 400 hp (or foot pounds of torque) and you replace it with a 30% weaker U-Joint then we must assume that the failure rate of that U-Joint will be much higher when you apply the your usual/same 400 hp. All just my humble opinion moe
Interesting....but I'd like to see a model of the stress on a ujoint cross, under load, with and without the grease holes. I'm guessing that there is not a lot of stress in the center of the part where the holes are, since quite a bit of the load on it is bending load. I've been running the same serviceable Ujoints in my 55 chevy for well over a decade, I've run it at the strip with sticky tires, it's a heavy car with a blown big block....so I'm pretty confident that most guys will be fine with serviceable U joints. Most ujoint failures I see are due to lack of lubrication.
This fix worked! I pulled the drive shaft this afternoon, found my extra slip yoke, and compared the two. The difference in length between the two slip yokes was nearly identical to the difference in length between the two pinion yokes. I will be replacing both U-joints on the shaft, but for now, I just swapped the slip yokes and got the extra length I needed. Thanks moe!
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