Help me gather my thoughts... 49 chevy front suspension

okay...

so i'm in the planning stages for my next project. '49 fleetline.

one of the non-negotiable factors is that per Mrs. alteredpilot's orders this car MUST have bags. that being said, you can save any self-righteous traditionalism. its lost on this conversation. she doesn't care, and frankly neither do i in this instance.

i think i've decided to do a JBC 2 link in the back based on the fact that it is the least intrusive as far as cutting away trunk and floors. i also think i'm going with the accuair self leveling system.

that gets us to the front end.

i've spent a ton of time searching and what not. i think i'm more confused now than when i started.

i was pretty happy with the stock front suspension on my '52 with dropped uprights. rode just fine in my opinion.

so i guess what i'm having a hard time with is the number of builders going with a mustang II style suspension over the stock unit.

i mean, if the stock front end works just fine, why go through time, energy and money to install something else? the only real advantage i can see is the rack and pinion steering.

please help me out if i'm missing something.

is there any inherent advantage to the mII over the stock front end in a bagged application? is there some reason NOT to bag the stock front end? i've seen it on a number of occasions and i've never heard anyone say they wished they had put in a mII front end.

discuss.

 

Here's how to run bags on the stock front end..

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=152076

 

well one good reason to put in MII for a bagged application is you will be starting a good 4" lower than stock even without the bags.

 

I'm bagging the stock front end on my 51...My 53 was just fine also with dropped uprights... besides Mustang II is not traditional. Ha!

 

Suspension design is a set of compromises. The best part of a Mustang II set up is all the thinking has been done for you. You get a great front end for canyon carving/race track situations. Rack and Pinion setups come ready to "bolt-in" and you don't have to worry about bump-steer issues. Lots of brake choices for all kinds of budgets.

 

So called Mustang II actually originated in Pinto. If you want to drive around on a 1970 Pinto front end go for it.

 

I'll give you my 2 cents worth. I have a '50 and I didn't want all the expense of putting in aMll change over. After rebuilding the stock front end, I decided that a cruiser should have power steering. The stock front end does not lend itself too well for that. I installed a Celebrity power rack and all went smooth, that is 'till I drove it. The geometry of the stock front end gave me major bump steer. I have since limited the wheel jounce and rebound travel considerable. to make it tolerable. I am still left with a turning radius of one football field. Hind sight is always easier and if I were to doit again,,,,,,, Mustang, Pinto, Pacer, anything. They come with the disc brakes, the power rack, ball joints, correct geometry, need I go on?

Well, that's just my opinion, since you asked....

Rog aka 66Ragman

 

you would think that with umpteen million MII front ends installed over the last 20 years or so and who knows how many articles written on the same subject that people would not say this sort of thing.

the only thing "pinto" in my front end are the spindles, rack & pinion and front springs. 49 - 54's with SBC's use 4 cylinder springs. my aftermarket crossmember is the thickest steel in my frame.

the fact that the design and geometry came from a small car means nothing.

 

That's probably what he's been told, by someone else that has never had a MII or even used one!

 

The plug and play characteristics of the modern MII are hard to beat for the price. They are easy to put in, probably easier than rebuilding the stock front end and then bagging it. Dropped spindles, rack and pinion, the reasons to do it are numerous. Give Alex Gambino a call, he has the best pricing on the Fatman stuff, I am very happy with the quality

 

ultimately i just want to do it right the first time. i'm going through all the effort to pull the body and strip the frame and all that jazz, so thats going to be the time to do whatever i'm going to do.

i took a look at Scott's IFS. pretty nice setup. 9" of travel, well designed and adjustable like crazy. its a unit designed specifically for bags not a modified M2 unit.

 

What is the perpus of the air bags,Do you put your wallet under it when parking.One question with bags will when set at ride height will it stay the same +/- 1/4.The MII if it getts to low the wheel turn in at top.I put a MII and braking in its dropping of the past year,had to strighten the wheels calls for 1 dges caster 0 camber.

 

The so called Mustang II was based on the Pinto platform including suspension.

Today's aftermarket version may not have a single Ford part in it. So what difference does it make what you call it?

 

OK I was wrong. The Pinto excuse me Mustang II must be the best suspension in the world because it is so common, just like the Chev V8 is the best engine in the world for the same reason.

 

Rusty, why the hate on for the MII front suspension? It's a good handling IFS, it can use tubular upper/lowers, plenty of shock/coilover/bag options and it sits low on it's own. Power rack, manual options as well, using off the shelf parts.

I personally don't care much for the strut-rod style front end, but the full tubular are really nice.

So, aside from spouting sarcasms, what exactly is wrong with the it?

 

Funny, it's the leading setup for independent frontends! Plus you have to understand the aftermarket MII are only based on the original setups, they are much stronger and a lot better frontend.... only they look similar. There's no way I'd take a stock MII/Pinto frontend and expect it to work on a 49 chevy.

 

why swap ifs for ifs when it's worked fine for 60 years. Rebuild it and go..all mine drive great lowered. Just my opinion....i like the feel of my "original" susp...If it was good enough for corvette it's good enough for me.

 

I've heard that before too, Matthew. I figured, since I needed new springs, bushings, brakes, steering etc, that the MII was the easier switch over. I often tell people not to swap out the fronts on postwar chevys for the same corvette reason.

Still, there's nothing WRONG with the Mustang II front end either..

 

Ian Berky made a quote when he drove his car to austin this year...

it was something to the effect of "i drove the whole way at 85 mph, 2 inches off the ground with no problems"

THATS what i want.

my 52 was REAL light in the corners, i want this thing to stick.

i have no problems with the top hat front suspension, but i want this thing to perform.

 

Man, I'm torn myself.... this 51 I just picked up and I'm having the same problems, either spend the dough for a nice MII frontend.... or rebuild the frontend and bag it.

I'm keeping an eye on this thread.... will you keep us posted Alterdpilot on which ever way you go?

Thanks!

 

A properly setup MII front end will corner harder and can be adjusted a little more than the stock IFS. You can bag the stock front end, rebuild it with all new parts, put a good set of shocks on it, and put a bigger sway bar on it with poly bushings and it will handle just as good as the MII, but without the extra adjustability. With the stock front end, you're pretty much stuck with stock steering, the MII gets the R&P. Power steering can be put on both the stock front end and with a power rack on the MII. Disc brakes are stock with MII stuff, and they can be adapted to the stock IFS.

I'd go either direction, but I lean towards keeping the stock IFS and modifying it for air bags. I've helped a friend bag his stock front end and it was simple, and I've installed several MII setups that require a little more work and a bigger price tag, but the end results are good. If you bag the stock front end, you can always find another stock IFS subframe and bolt it in with 16 bolts if you ever wanted to go back to stock up front.

I rebuilt the stock front end on our '53, put good shocks, poly bushings, and cut a couple of coils out and I think it has the perfect ride height up front for the look we're going for but I might step the lower arms for a little more drop. The rear is stock springs with every other one removed and 4" blocks. Frame is resting in the axle, so I'm going to step notch it 6" so it will probably settle another inch lower in the rear. It also steers easily thanks to the stock steering wheel and skinny 6.70-15 Bias Ply WWW's that there's no reason to ever desire power steering...

 

Nothing wrong with the stock stuff, it is early corvette after all

 

Has anyone done or even considered doing the C4 front suspension from http://www.progressiveautomotive.com/sweet.htm with the shockwaves? Im leaning towards this in my 49' coupe.

 

What about a Jaguar XJ front end? Unbolts, coils, discs, power R&P, same wheel bolt pattern, drops it a few inches, can easily buy the whole car for less than the Mustang II kit... don't know what that does for bagging it, but I'm sure it can be done.

 

agreed. It really all depends on the situation your in and what style your going for...both work and function great...just one needs a little more tlc from time to time.

 

The main reason the MII is SO popular is because it's a complete KIT... It's all been scienced out over the years, and it's a simple install. Can you trick up the stock stuff to work with bags and corner hard? Sure. Will it be as quick and easy as a full MII graft? NO.

I personally hate the fact that the MII gets used on EVERYTHING (right up to and including 1 ton dually pickups!), but you can't argue with the ease of installation.

 

texas ********...im doing that setup on my fleetline. I already stepped my lowers and cut 2 coils out. But I do have some scrub issues...oh well. You can just barely slide your steel toes under the front fender...with 670-15's. But I want a extremely low car(like the g****vine)with no bags. I also modified the cup where the lower c arm bumpstop hits..i removed the little spot welded backet the rubber hits and welded a flat piece of steel in it's place..that gives me a little extra travel.

 

My 51 still has the stock front under it...biggest issue is the p/o heated the front springs to drop it...I have a new set of 55-57 front coils collecting dirt in the shop anyone know if they might work on the 52?

 

I don't know if they'll fit, but Jamco has 3" lowering springs on ebay for $129 for 49-54's.

 

ultimately it comes down to dollars and cents on this one.
as far as i can on the car with about $15k

if i went with M2:
rear 2 link $1k
M2 kit $2500
Air Management: $2k

so that eats up about 5500 bucks.

if i rebuild and bag the front,
I'm still in for 3k for the 2 link and air ride
and i'm looking at about 1500 give or take to rebuild, bag and disc brake the front end

so that sets me back about 4500.

is there a real tangible value in spending the extra $1k for a 'modern' suspension?