Projects Does your T5 sound like this?

Yes, i am just rocking the input shaft back and forth, and if i turn it over completely it does become smooth.

yes, pilot bearing is proper size
yes, there is sufficient travel for the drive shaft yolk
I am using dex/merc III

while at idle it sounds like a rock tumbler, BUT this is behind a 4 cylinder, not a smooth v8, and to top that off it has a 15 lb flyweel/pp combo that is not going to dampen engine pulses like a 40 lb one or a torque converter will.
not to mention, it has a lumpy idle from a lopey cam.


i am aware that all of that is going to make the trans clatter a bit, but it just feels like a ton of lash.

how do i know if it is too much?

if there is too much lash, wild opening and shutting of the throttle plate while in gear could cause something close to what is happening in the video, and the light flywheel is not going to help.

i realize its not going to go back and fourth like in the video and will always be turning in the same direction, but in the event of a complete close of the throttle plate from WOT while in gear that lash is part of the slack between the engine and ground.

in drag racing it probably would not hurt much, but road racing might kill it if its not right

that follows right?

i want to go out and hammer on this thing and would like to at the track with sticky tires, and just don't want it to be a weak link, especially since a paid a premium for it.

if this is the way they are supposed to be i totally understand why they are notorious for being a howling bitch during deceleration like this one is.
i just want to be able to trust it.

thanks.

 

i know its a bit after the fact but this is what i have and its taken one hell of a beating on the street and strip.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=fms-m-7003-z&dds=1


keep us posted on what you find.

 

thanks, that is pretty much exactly what i have, but modified.
i think modern driveline pretty much took that, modified it for the sebring set, put it in, added the cluster gear reinforcement plate, and put it back together. i also got a mcleod short throw with it.

i could have gotten the parts and put it together, but md has a good rep, so...

 

i would assume maybe "some" metallic particulate in trans fluid after a break in period is normal.
i would also assume that trans fluid resembling ed roth candy apple metal flake after under 40 miles on the trans is bad, and not normal
right?

 

Question is, is it magnetic particles or no-magnetic.

IF it's brass, it's sychros

IF it's steel, its bearings

 

its non ferrous

 

I've heard that some amount of brass particles are expected. But I'm not sure what's excessive or abnormal....

 

you really need to get your money back. for what you spent, that thing should be perfect.

 

so as a mechanic by trade,i have had some dealings with trans shops and warranty claims.never once did a trans shop refuse warranty.i recall one occasion when the trans shop stood behind their warranty 110% when they warrantied a trans more than a year after warranty expired.all we said was the guy was a good customer of ours.didnt even ask for a warranty claim.

2,000 for a trans with near zero miles,loud as a rat chewing through the floorboards,i would politely explain what im expecting of them,and what happens if they dont stand behind their product.
tell everybody how good their product and warrant really is.

 

i agree, but what should i do about that, how do i prove how many miles on it other than what my friends and family say.
they put mileage on inspection i suppose, and its up now. gotta see if i have records for that.
i doubt its gone much over 100 miles since i moved down here almost 2 years ago cause the damn thing has been apart. lol

i gotta go back and check the dates of everything and figure that out.

i am just tired of fighting with that crap, nearly every piece of this car has been kinda like this lol.

its sad when your chances are better with JY stuff.

wonder what i will find inside.

 

hmmm, found it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r09B_2ocoH0

 

in the video the outer race is popped out of the housing which accounts for the play in the video.

i just got the tailshaft of and had to leave to go pick up my wife from work so i only have a minute to look at it.

when i got back that outer race just spins free in the housing, thats incorrect right, i would assume its not just pinched on by the tail housing. right?
the magnet at the bottom looks loaded with stuff.

 

here is the non jump to conclusion version of the video

 

not really sure how to interpret this

b. Push output shaft group (120) rearward to force
bearing cup (71) out of transmission case (117).

that bearing race just spins as free as can be, not sure if i would choose the word "force" to get it out.

but i have not ever delt with this trans before, so i just dont know.

the magnet on the bottom of the case is totally covered, and there is a lot of silver metallic slop in this thing, i dont really know how much of that to expect in a normal break in.

this trans is new, so there is not much of one, but from what i can tell, the mesh pattern of all the gears is pretty spot on, accept for the 5th gear on the output, but that set is staggered, which i am not sure is right either. 5th on the cluster is fine.

i just dont know. i could not find any pictures of an installed sebring set to compare it with.
the clunk was coming from those gears though, i am not sure if its just cause they have less teeth, and are larger, but yup, not sure.

not sure what i should do from here aside from cleaning stuff

thanks guys

 

The rear bearing race should come out (move) with a wiggle of the output shaft. The rear housing pinches the rear race and keeps it from spinning. These are not a press fit race. But I've never seen one spin that easily as in you video. Nor have I ever seen that much "slurry" in the bottom of the tailhousing. I would say this is where your problem is, and a new center case is in order. Wish you were closer, I deal with these trans on almost a daily basis.

 

Not in a world class T-5. A world class uses clutch material (like in an automatic trans) on its blocker rings, the only brass ring is on 5th gear. Thats why the world class trans uses ATF for fluid.

 

Are the synchro rings brass and lined with fiber?

My TKO had all brass rings (like the one on the right). When I blew it up, I replaced all but the 5th gear with the carbon fiber blocker rings (like the one on the left).



The material found in the fluid "if" brass would be from the syncrho sleeve engaging the syncrhos. Unless the T5 has brass bushings other than on the reverse/5th idler. Where else would the brass come from?

There shouldn't be hardly any steel bits stuck to the magnet in the bottom.

 

A TKO and a WC T-5 are different. A WC T-5 uses steel blocker rings with clutch lining,the ONLY brass one is on 5th gear. A NWC uses brass blockers, a TKO uses brass, a WC does not.......

His T5Z is just a modified T-5 that uses a tapered bearing on the main shaft to input shaft.

 

thanks, i wish i were closer too, and not only because of the transmission.
i would love ohio over texas, i sorta need 4 seasons for sanity and we really only have 2 here, although i am not sure what i would call them.

yea, it seems like the tail shaft just pinches it in, but it sure spins easy.

are they usually just a slip fit, or do they need to be lightly tapped in usually.
how is the feel? they will just come out with a wiggle of the shaft?

sorry, i just want to get this straight as possible, its really hard to get a sense of feel from text lol.

anything else i should look for? i will put another vid up, and i have a picture of some of the stuff off the magnet. the stuff off the magnet looks pretty bad to me.
how much metal, and such should i expect from a new trans during break in?
again, this thing absolutely has under 40 miles on it.

thanks again

 

Ok, sounds good. Begs the question, what's in the fluid?

Is there evidence that the races were spinning inside the housing? If so, you should see galling or wear from the race moving against the housing.

None of the races were press fit in my TKO. I don't see anywhere in the service manual that states press fit on the T5 either.

 

here is a sample from the magnet on the case

 

I have a 1983 camaro Z28 1352-028 box, with an S10 tailshaft in my OT chevy truck. I think the lash is the same as yours, and when I drain the fluid, I get all the brass bits like you do, and it whines a little in 3rd gear...but then again my trans is almost 30 years old, and was probably beat on by everybody and their mother.

 

thanks, i have nothing that looks like brass.
as it has been said, only the synchro for 5th is brass.

lol, i hope i did not go through all this to find nothing, but at least i will know whats going on.
still it does not seem right for a new trans

 

Yours is a NWC, GM didn't start using WC until 1993. Yours will have brass and should use a 80-90wt oil.

 

the rear race usually just goes in by hand but won't turn in the bore as easy as your. Looking at your pictures it looks like you have a misalignment of 5th gear drive (big gear) and 5th driven (small gear) they should line up evenly. Also looks like they are using a modified 5th gear, usually 5th is a really fine tooth gear. Never seen that much play between the gears either. I'd say thats your knocking noise.

 

Have you strained the fluid to find out what it was?

If it's not brass, and it's not magnetic then I am afraid it might be aluminum.

I finally got to watch your video of the rear bearing race spinning. I had an error this morning trying to watch it. And after seeing that it would seem the bearing race is loose in the case and what you tried to show does look like wear on the case from the bearing race spinning against it.

How do the bearings themselves look?

The alignment on 5th looks odd. It would give me reason to suspect something wrong.

 

fifth is the modified sebring set i had talked about. it is not fine like the weak overdrive gearing.

http://www.5speeds.com/t5/s80.html

no, but thats a good idea to strain the fluid, i will grab some cheese cloth when i am out later.

i have yet to pull everything apart and look at the bearings.

i guess i will go ahead and do that.

 

keep the pictures coming because they are great for future reference on inspecting or rebuilding a t5 transmission.

 

yesir, especially since the sebring set and the z-spec does not to appear to be documented well. and there is a lot of confusion surrounding all the different t5 thisses and thats.

it makes me feel better about the whole thing, i will try to post up a reference thread for the t5-z and the sebring set, flat-earnie can at it to his tech links

here
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169265

i would love to be useful. lol
i dont have much traditional stuff going on at the moment for this site, but a lot of people use the t5 and i would love to contribute

 

I've got to admit that I was following this thread and thinking that you were just a whinner who was complaining about a non existing problem.
Now I'm glad I didn't make any nasty comments. You do have a problem trans. This is bad.

I run 2 used T-5's. NWC. Changed oil in both when I got them and even the old used oil didn't look like yours. Yours is definitly self destructing. I had the tail housings off both of mine and there was no sludge in there.\

One of mine even had a 5th gear retaining ring break and I drove it for a year with just 4 speeds and neutral for 5th before I pulled it out and fixed the problem. And I just saved the oil and put it back in.

Good luck.

Frank