If you are looking into sticking with the efi, I would personally try to find alot of the electronics/wiring/intake/throttle body stuff of a fox body mustang. There is so much more aftermarket support for the fox mustang stuff than the explorer plus dealing with the obd2 explorer wiring and computer stuff will add more challenges over the obd1 fox electronics. Best all around to me in general would be explorer long block with fox body mustang intake system (if you want efi). Fox wiring harness and a9L computer. and if you want an auto AOD. I think this combo could be put together very cheap and perform very well. It looks like pre 1982 all were the old firing order. after that the standard 5.0 was old firing order, 5.0ho was the same as 351w. I am ***uming that all explorer 5.0's were the 351 order. the stock can would be a good budget option, i get where you are coming from but (and i know someone will say i'm nuts) if you are careful you can buy used roller cams and use them a little easier than a used flat tappet. If he goes with the gt40p heads I think a stock mustang cam wouldn't make good use of the heads and while you can find a decent stock cam he might be able to find someone upgrading an aftermarket pretty cheap too. (I paid $50 for my b303 I had and it worked just fine)
I know the distributor version OBDII engine can handle an E303 cam without a problem. I imagine the distributorless Explorer electronics would be able to as well. Anything more aggressive that dramatically reduces vacuum at idle might make it idle erratically (maybe not such bad thing in a hot rod... or whatever it's going in. The 5.0L Explorers have been out long enough that there's got to be people out there that have already messed with them... Google that one. But, yeah, there's a lot more support for the Mustang set up. I ran the piss out of my used roller cam in my used engine... never had an issue. I'm all about the budget builds!
'critchdizzle'; Since you are considering EFI, but starting with an Explorer 5.0, I have stock Mustang H.O. upper and lower intakes, throttle body, injector rails, and injectors that I'd sell to you really cheap. I have no use for them. Just let me know if you're interested....
You might want to check out this site http://forums.corral.net/forums/windsor-engine-parts/ since you stated you budget is tight these guys are always swapping parts looking for more horsepower and there are some good deals to be had,those AFR 185's with roller rockers for $1150 for example.
X2 on the E303 cam/GT40 head/Weiand Stealth intake combo for respectable power, nice sound and good drivability on the cheap.
The Explorer motor with GT40P heads is a great base for low-budget power. My set-up is a Trick Flow TFS1 cam, Crane beehive spring kit, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap manifold and Holley 570 CFM Street Avenger carb. 345 hp at the crank At idle, it sounds like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBTe53uRcOk&feature=feedwll&list=WL If you want to stay with EFI, go over to corral.net. The Mustang guys know how to make this combo work for cheap.
I'll toss in some info. I've spent the last 20+ years waist deep in the 5.0 Mustang world. Myth: B303 cam is "old design" and the TrickFlow Stage 1 is much better. Truth is the TF1 grind is almost identical to the B303 in actual lobe and timing grinds. Only real difference is the lift. Price is very comparable. Both have a mean sounding idle and will work very well with an auto. There is a strong anti B303 sentiment, often with those same people tooting the TF1 horn. None of them like it when I show them the specs of the two cams side by side. The X303 is ground identical to the B303 except it has .542" lift with 1.6 rockers versus .480" lift on the B303 with 1.6 rockers. Change to 1.7 rockers with the B303 and you get .510" lift. The B303 and X303 cams are fantastic hot rod cams. Are there better cams? Yes, but these are out there and often can be bought cheap. Every H.O. 5.0L/302 has the same firing order as the 351W/5.8L. A 302 with the cheapest aftermarket heads, a stealth and at least a B303 cam will easily make over 340 hp at the crank with 9:1 compression. 302's like compression. 10:1 s totally street-able in a lightweigh car. Car Craft built a 302 with 165 AFR heads, 1.6 roller rockers, a stealth intake, a 650 carb and stepped headers and made over 400 crank hp and 380 ft-lbs with the OE Mustang camshaft. Used roller cams are usually ok as long as you follow the following rules... New cam with used roller lifters = OK Used cam with new roller lifters = OK Used cam with used roller lifters = NO! Unless you know which lifter came off which lobe and put them back on said lobe. Explorers have a different front dress that is much shorter than the Mustangs front dress and it is also different from the 302 HO Thunderbird/Cougars, which fall someplace in between. Mustangs and F-series 302/351W engines use the same front dress. They are interchangeable. Makes for a common good source for parts. If you get an Explorer 5.0L with distributor less ignition, pull the cam sensor and drop in a distributor and off you go. Explorer 8.8's typically cam with 3 ring and pinion ratios. 3.55, 3.73 and 4.10. Most of them seem to be 3.73 and almost all were Traction-Lok. All are 31 spline with relatively large diameter axles and 5x4.5" pattern. Many have disc brakes with integral parking brakes. The pinion is offset about 2" to the p***enger side. If you get an engine that does not have a roller cam in it and it has an engineering date of E7TE or newer you swap a roller cam in with almost no effort. ALL 302's made after '82 are 50 oz-in balanced. All 351's are 28.2 oz balance. I highly recommend you get a Mustang based or F150 based 302. They are the most supported version. The 302 Ford's biggest drawback is the cylinder heads. You want aftermarket heads. You can buy brand new Patriot Performance aluminum heads for $960 bucks. You can hardly refurb iron heads for that and they won't even come close to the 250 cfm the Patriot heads flow. The Stealth is about the best 302 carb intake you can get. Port match it to the heads for substantial gains. Don't go with a carb smaller than 650 or larger than 750 with the Ford B303 and X303 cams. A 302 with a B303 that is tuned right will use all of a 750. A 303 with the B303, 1.6 and stock 9:1 compression will run on the ****tiest gas and still rip. Lastly... my personal opinion... the E303 is for pussies and grandma's. Forget it.
critchdizzle thanks for a timely thread... tjm73, thanks for all the good info. Speaking of roller cams, what is the rules on distributor drive gears? I have heard that you have to have a bronze gear if using a roller cam.
F bronze gears. Use steel gears just like the factory did. Bronze slowly wears out. Anything other than steel is a waste of time and money and could take out your engine. All roller cam 302's are 351W firing order. All non-roller 302's are the old firing order. The roller H.O. debuted in the '85 Mustang GT stick car only. In '86 all Mustang GT's were roller H.O.'s. The '86 heads were junk (performance wise) and the '86 pistons were not much better. In '87 through '92 the Mustang, Lincoln Mark VII, and some T-Bird's and Cougar's were 5.0 H.O. cars. H.O. 302's in that era had forged pistons from the factory too. If anyone has specific questions, I can probably answer them.
A lot of good info given!! We've been playing with foxbody stangs for about 10 years now and their a hoot! Agree with tjm73 that for street use, and bang for the buck, both the x cam and the Stage 1 are great.. Never thought I'd say it, but, to me, FI is the way to go... easy to tune and great performance. Bill
How much lift will the stock GT40P heads take? The idea is, as far as the rear end goes, is to shorten it on the one side, so the pinion will be centered, also, it'll make it the right width for my car. If I didn't say this before, it's going to be in a '51 Ford. Good date car
If you use the GT40P heads you won't get a header to fit because of plug location,the GT40 heads no problem but by the time you spend $$ freshen to them up you could go this route: http://www.kmjent.com/cart/product.php?productid=4520&cat=17&page=1 and gain at least 50+ HP and have all new parts.With the stock,GT40 or these heads you can use Hedman headers part# 88420 in a '49-52 Ford
Found some that say they work with the GT40P heads http://www.tperformance.com/total-performance-headers.html
Yeah, but I'd rather spend the money on a quality pair of heads than have my engine ruined by cheap knock-off heads. Caveat emptor. Besides, like I said, headers aren't a problem.
OK, so here's what I think I'm gonna do (or at least until someone tells me something better) I'm going to find an explorer long block and put in a B303 cam, unless I can find a short block with that cam already in it, in which case I'll put on the GT40P heads. I'll save the Carb vs. EFI discussion for another day, but I think my decision there will be largely based on the source of my engine, i.e. if I pull it from a car, I'll go with the existing EFI and computer and transmission, but if I get it with an AOD or get an engine without induction system, then I'll go with carburetor.
So what did you end up doing? I've got a 1950 Ford Fordor. 1990 Mustang 5.0L HO motor going in, and I'm currently torn between rebuilding and using the 1990 AOD or a 2002-ish, low-mile V6 Mustang 4R70W (cost should be similar, all things considered). I have to cut and re-do the trans tunnel anyway, so cutting a little bigger won't be that big a deal. Bought a 1997 Explorer 8.8 with 3.55 gears, disc brakes, and posi, and had it narrowed 3" on one side. Fits like a glove.
Ended up not going for that project, gonna build an FE-powered Fordor A instead, soon as I get some stuff paid off...damn student loans! As for your question, I'd go with the AOD, that way you don't have to deal with the computer (unless of course you're planning on keeping the EFI on the 5.0) I think I heard or read somewhere that the internals from the 4R70W will go into an AOD case, giving you stronger internals without the computer. I could be wrong though. Anyone else know for sure?
I bought the 4R70W - 19k miles for $360. They had one with 1600 miles, but was $550. 19k is new enough! I'm getting the Baumann Optishift controller (or whatever they're calling it now) for the ******, gives me control over shift points and whatnot. Nice feature, and no more money than rebuilding the AOD or swapping some of the internals. Need to get a junk block to get it mocked in, so I can see what I need to do for the crossmember and tunnel. Motor is at the machine shop, after 120k, it only needs a hone and polish.
Good idea, I'd go for the 19K miles as well. As for the crossmember and tunnel, I'm pretty sure it doesn't need much in the way of modification. IIRC Jamco offers a crossmember and engine mount kit to mount a 302 and AOD (should work with the 4R70W as well) in the shoebox. All bolt-in. You'll need a Bronco oil pan too or else it won't clear.
Ok I will bite. Im currently building a 56 F100 with a 302. Im looking for all the touque possible without major changes. Heres what I have 302.Eldobrock Performer intake, new eldobrock 600 carb. T18 4 spd. with 3.00 gears and a 29'' tire. I will change gears or do a over under later. With the T18 my low gear is around 6.32 if I remember correctly. My intentions are pulling a trailer occasionaly, and normal driving. Any advice?
If it was me, I'd go with a T-10 or a toploader, your ratios on that T-18 are entirely too far apart IMO. I had a friend who had a Bronco with the T-18 (if I remember correctly) and he was having to rev the living daylights out of it because of how far apart the ratios were. Probably shouldn't be too hard to swap. Engine-wise, I'd go with a 390, the things put out bucketloads of torque even in stock form. But if you reallly want the 302, Comp Cams 31-412-8 is what I'd go with, since your engine is mostly stock. Again, I'd strongly recommend going with something bigger. I don't mean to offend, just telling you what I'd do (though I am rather partial to the FE-series motors like the 390, so that may have something to do with it )
No offense. Im not pulling that much. I do have a toploader but Im saving it for another project. I already have the 302 installed. Primarily its gas mileage. If I was really pulling every day it would be deisel. As far as gear selection with a over under I can split the shift.
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