Hi, all. I can't find an answer in the archives and looking for some help. I have a banjo rear end I was told was from a '40. It has 13" OD drums. Maybe from a truck? I wanted to put Ford bent spoke 16x6 all around, but no way they're going to fit over the drum without an adapter. I was wondering if anybody already knew if there was a larger diameter bent spoke wheel, same style, that would fit over the drum? That would be my fisrt choice; second would be adapters. Thanks for any input Mike
I would check with Coker Tire. They have quite an ***ortment of wheels in stock. Hope this helps. Good Luck
Yeah, there kind of my last resort. I'm trying to not go the 1-800 route. Still a possibility but mucho expensive. Thanks.
These bolt right on, they dont fit over the drum , a thin spacer is used to support the wheel center from bowing when you tighten the lug nuts up, they sell for around $22.00 ea so that $88.00 for 4 plus shipping and you are rolling.
Unless you have pickup brakes and drums, as I do. Adapters are not legal here so I had to change from wires to solids. Also I doubt your wires are 16x6, more likely 16x4 or 16x4 1/2.
Pic of your wheel don't look like a bent spoke to me in fact are you sure that's even a ford wheel. Might be my eyes but it just don't look right.
Bob. I agree that Mike's picture is not a bent spoke Kelsey. Now a question for Mike. What is the ID of the 13 inch OD drum you have? How about some pictures? Charlie Stephens
if it's a truck rear end, the axle housings bolt together, no center section, 1 housing will look deeper and wider than the mateing housing, it will look more like a bell, also Kelsey-Hays made a straight spoke wheel also, bent spoke was used mostly on PU's, look on the back of the wheel hub it will have KH stamped on it, also they made wheels for a lot of different cars.
I guess I misspoke (honestly, no pun intended) about bent-spoke - that's probably why it says "FNG" under my screen name. It would be more correct to say the spokes are angled. The guy I bought these from had some wheels where the front row of spokes radiated straight out from the hub. Regarding the wheels, I'll look if there's a KH stamp anywhere, As for the center section, yes, there is one. Here's a better picture of the wheel. If you click on it, it'll blow up nice and detailed. Thanks for your input.
Just use spacers. I wouldn't go larger than a 16" on a Kelsey bent spoke unless I was building a ghetto cruiser.
Mike, I would like to repeat my previous question: What is the id of the brake drum (not exactly, but is it about 12 inches?)? Any chance of getting a picture of the brake hub & drum? You shouldn't be having a problem, something is being overlooked. Charlie Stephens
Hi, Charlie. I didn't forget about your question. Looks like I'll need to let the Kroil do it's job overnight before I can answer your question. I did take some pics of the outside of the drum. The outside diameter where the shoes are is closer to 12-3/4" Also, based on dimensions and using the info on Hot Rod Works website, I think I can say the rear end is '42 - '48. This is based on the banjo width (~3 -13/16") and the flg-to-flg axel length (25-1/2") Thanks
By the way, I don't think I'm experiencing a problem so much as I am just wondering if I can fit spokes on this thing. It's my first Model A experience. Right now I'm trying to replace the S-10 rearend installed by the previous owner with a banjo.
First off you need a heavy duty puller to remove those hubs/drums . There is the orignal Ford style or the more common one that uses 3 legs that attach to 3 wheel studs. The style of hub/drum is 46-48. If'n you was in west Phoenix I got that puller.You doing a open drive conversion? And yes the spokes will work on that hub/drum but you should use the support ring that goes by the stud area. Your brake drum is a 12" id ,drums are sized by the diameter where the shoes go.
Heck fire, cuzzin, me an' Flossy is working in Peoria, Glendale, and the avenues alot lately. I was leaning towards the torque tube. I'm sort of following along with the Bishop / Tardell book. Sort of.
It looks like you shouldn't have any problems with the wire wheels but be sure to use the spacer like others have suggested. You can put the wire wheels on but they will not be seated properly and you may not catch it if you don't know what you are looking for. Be sure to get a good puller (I like the reproduction KR Wilson one), and not just a big hammer or you will be needing new axles. Charlie Stephens
Thanks everyone. I am going to try to meet up with John tomorrow and take him up on his kind offer with the puller. If we get them off I'll post pics back here. I guess if I have to use C4 there won't be much left to show.
at 1 time there was a knocker adapter that you threaded on to the axle and smacked it with a heavy hammer, works better than a puller, won't hurt the axles and was used by the Ford garage, I think you can get 1 from a place like Vintage Ford or other parts places that sell early Ford stuff, I still use the one I have had for ever it seems with out a single problem
First, those are Ford wires, not Kelseys. You can tell them apart by the fact that the spokes only cross one other spoke, not two like a Kelsey. BTW, the ones with the wires radiating straight out from a smaller hub are Model A wheels, and not 16". Second, you have the wrong hubs and drums to work with wires. You need the '46-'48 hubs that have the drums behind the hub flange. Your drums are outside the hubs and hold the wheel an inch or more away from the hub surface. I have the same wheels on my AV8 ch***is with '39 axles out of a pickup and hit the exact same snag as you did. You will still need the shim adapters mentioned above to support the center of the wheels, or you can weld short pieces of tubing to the wheels to do the same thing. Do NOT tighten the wheels to the hubs without some kind of spacer in there, the wheels will bend and be worthless! I believe the spacer rings are 2 1/2 inch tube, 1/4" long, but my memory may be faulty. It's easy to measure what you need, anyway.
I would get another rear end. You live in Arazona where there should be a lot of good JOH (Thats Junk On Hand) and it should cost less than some of the other alternatives. Why use the simple solution when you can find a complicated one ? Here in So. Cal a good set of 35 wheels cost more than a rear end. ****
The '40 rear is about the right width for an A frame. If you find a later ('46-'48) rear, the driveshaft and 'bones work better than the '40's do. I shortened the '39 tube and the '48 bones fit right on the tab on the tube like it was made to! Just had to heat the rear of the bones so they would bend a bit to match up to the rear end mounts. There are lots of combos that work, but this setup worked great for me. If you are going with an open drive, none of that matters anyway.
Well all, here's the end results. Thank you all for your input, and especially thanks to John Evans for all his time and knowledge in removing the drums. Pics show the wheel and drum from front and back and a few close ups. I put some modeling clay behind the wheel and looks like a pretty thin gap between the wheel and drum. Regards, Mike
Mike, you said that... "I put some modeling clay behind the wheel and looks like a pretty thin gap between the wheel and drum." There should not be any space between the center of the wheel hole and the brake drum. If you tighten the lug nuts enough there won't be any space but you will be bending the rim center and after you drive it a while you will ruin the wheel. That is why you should pop for the $20.00ea. wheel spacers that prevent that from happening. There is a reason that they sell those things and the cost is well worth it after you have to buy another set of wheels. I have had a lot of experience with 35 Ford and Kelsey Hayes wheels and I would like to save a buck to, but I pop for the spacers. They are available from most of the most of the Model A Parts suppliers. ****
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