Thought I'd p*** this link along for your insights. www.motorcityspeedequipment.com As I understand it your external stuff (except oil pan) will bolt right on this new block. That should make this monster very cost effective. What 'cha think?
Not cost effective using my budget......I'd prefer the real thing anyway. Most anybody can get a flatty together to suit whatever budget he has to work with. With that block, only the deep pockets can even think about it! I'm sure "Street Rodder" will be doing a build up or using one in a project and pointing out how cost effective they are. IMHO
See, what I mean by "cost effective" is this engine will NOT require the builder to go out and purchase all new stuff to make this new block work, at least not the outside stuff. You can use all the traditional and nostalgic pieces that are commonly used on Flatheads.
I didn't finish reading the whole schpeel but I think if the SCTA recognizes this block, they should recognize that French one too, and they don't so far as I know. If ya can't use it in flathead cl*** at lakes meets what good is it?
I posted a question about using "stock" parts with their blocks....let's see what they have to say...If it is truely a superior block but I can use my factory pieces with it then I "may" consider it!
There are going to be 3 blocks made for flathead enthusiasts. I believe that the high performance possibilities will be endless. #1 emcomp***es larger crankcase area for stroker cranks=**** or whatever? as well as larger water jacket area.Stronger main cap webbing & much larger bore availability. #2 Strictly an Ardun deal mfg'd by Don Ferguson Junior=Ardun heads. #3 And this 3rd one which I spoke with MCF's Mark Kirby @ the GNRS about. With my company producing speed equipment for this type of powerplant I feel that we all are winners in this business-hobby. Someone posted a reply regarding that "they'd rather wait for a real one" or something like that? I ask what's not real about it, The steel that made it is millions of years old, Its comes from the earth=iron-ore just like their old sisters. Some people won't buy the new speed equipment, because they feel it doesn't have heritage? Go figure, The speed equipmrent that we mfg comes from recreated,original,restored & replacement tooling. some of our tools are 65yrs old.We're still at the same address as we were in the late 30's with the same #.but with an additional digit & 2 changed area codes over 70yrs. I'm in a historically siginificant car club that won't allow any reproduction bodies (brookville included),but it can have any kind of ch***is as long as it's traditional,again go figure? I own a deuce roadster with 1/2 a brookville body ,but everything else is gennie 32 ford. No replacement ch***is there. So that car is not a club car. I do have a gl*** car, a wood car,and a Ford designed Murray Built 34 Hupp 3W Coupe as well as genuine dry lakes car that's do***ented in photos in May of 47. Every one of these cars have their own special characteristics. They all feel great as long as I'm behind the wheel having fun! The reason that I'm in this business is because I'm a born gear head! Cars are my life, just ask all of the x-girlfriends-lol! Go out and drive em instead of worrying about the "Issues". I'm stepping down off my soap box now!
Good post Kevin. Right on the money. The Flathead Ford is just so damn charming it simply won't die. The ubitquitous sbc has all kinds of after market major ***emblies i.e. blocks, heads, rotating parts etc., and that development is a big reason why the engine is still viable today. Imagine if all development was frozen on the sbc at the 265" version in 1955. Would'nt quite be the same would it? Well for the "dyed in the wool" Ford people who look forward to Ford based stuff to utilize in our rods this is great news. Imagine a sweet Flathead V8 with big cubes and better breathing built right in. The predicted horsepower levels look pretty darn impressive if you ask me. Those are not "pie in the sky" #'s, Kirby has test data to support those figures. Could it be that maybe just maybe the Flathead Ford could experience yet another resurgence, this time at street horsepower levels that before we could only dream about. P.S. a thought just p***ed before my minds eye. How about a S.C.O.T. blower to bolt on top. Could 400 hp be within reach now. Pinch me I'm dreaming.
I've been known to look inside a Neiman Markus (sp?) catalog too but I've never bought anything there either. All my nostalgic parts bolt right on my blocks just like they were made for it.
My only issues with this are the $$$. Just cause I can bolt a 20 dollar junkyard oilpan to a $15000 motor, doesn't make it cost effective. I'm not sure what a bare block is gonna cost, but I'm willing to bet its more than I've paid for all the original running flatheads that I've owned put together. I certainly am not knocking this "new" engine. If I had the money, I would build some(not just one) but I doubt I'd slap a bunch of old stuff on it when your already running a new block, go all the way with it. Also I have to say, even though there is no way I could afford to build one, I'm glad to see my favorite engine resurected once again. Good on you for doing this, just to bad I can't have one. Drew
I predict this engine will fuel new debate a**** the traditional minded. The dynamics of this culture is so interesting. Some of us (probably me included) who scorn non-traditional stuff, such as gl*** bodies, IFS on open wheeled cars, etc, will embrace this new engine. I will probably make stupid moves in order to afford one. At least I hope I do.
Gee Tommy ya got me there! Neiman Markus? Not sure what they sell but it sure sounds fancy. Apparently I cannot properly articulate the benefits of being able to use the speed equipment that is out there right now. Also starters, generators, water pumps, pulleys, ignitions and covers etc. are useable. I don't see to much reason for negativity since we are all free to build whatever toots our own horn. I just think that the existence of a Flathead block with a bunch of built in enhancements is going to come in very handy for a significant number of people. I'll even bet this deal will help rein in the cost of Flathead component parts due to the principles of economies of scale.
I sure hope the SCTA allows this engine. I'm pretty sure the Donovan hemis and Brodix Chevys are strongly represented there. Maybe if there were a separate XF designation for aftermarket blocks it would work OK.
Don't take it personally. Sometimes I fantasize about winning the lottery, but for now I just enjoy my life in the low rent district. I wish them luck. I hope they can sell enough to recoop their developmental costs. I'm sure that's a big number. I understand why they cost so much. Some people eat caviar, I'm a tuna fish salad kinda guy.
What do you suggest is "a significant number of people"? If the wonderblock fares as well as the recreated -- and majorly improved -- Ardun heads, as I suspect it will, it's worth a few dozen sales in its first year, after which demand is likely to taper off. Perhaps my understanding of "the principles of economies of scale" is sketchy or naiive, but I doubt that it's even a factor in this situation much less a force that's going to favorably alter prices in the flathead parts market. But what do I know . . .
I sure don't want to lock horns with anyone on this (after all I did ask for your insights) but I'm just not sure where you are coming from av8? For example you refer to this as a "wonderblock" and the Orosco/Fergusen Ardun as a sales coup. Why even go there? As a matter of fact I spoke with Don Orosco at length about the new ARDUN's about the time he was in the final stages of development. His motivation? He needed a certain number of ARDUN engines to complete the restoration of some historic race cars he owned,(Allards I believe). When Orosco sold enough Ardun sets to break even on his development costs he sold the program to Fergusen. I don't get how this could be a bad thing. In the case of anyone doing a Flathead block be it Jack, Tatom, or Kirby I have to applaud them for being gritty enough to even take on a project of this magnitude. For anyone that may not know, outside contractors are very frequently hired to do special non- production line stuff for the major manufacturers.e.g. the NASCAR Dodge block is casted up by John Deere's state of the art iron foundry. This I read in a national auto racing magazine a few years back. If Ford decided to put a Flathead block into their performance catalog I'm sure they would use one of the aforementioned experts to supply most or all of product to them. They do this now with the new Genesis 427 replacement FE block. This is simply how this type of business is conducted today by EVERYONE. I also read back on a thread that was active a week or two about this subject while my computor was busted. In it there was talk that this MCF block is not really connected to a real Ford Flathead and therefore is not desireable. Nonsense I say. The article states that the tooling for the Flathead has long since been destroyed but that does'nt mean that the new tooling was'nt pulled from genuine Ford blocks (obviously) Furthermore this MCF block was developed in the shadows of Detroit by Ford Flathead aficianados who saw a need for a product and have chosen to fill it with the most advanced product they could come up with. What's not to like? In the reality I live in, I see one Ford after another equipped with a V8 supplied and produced by their rival and direct compe***or Chevrolet. Not a good feeling for a Ford enthusiast like me. In this context I see the possibility of a few or maybe many more builders choosing to run a Ford based driveline in their Ford based hot rods since it seems the potential of this new Flathead is right in line with the power that the street type 350 offers. I think Henry would approve.
When we do up a flathead block we spend upwords of 100s hours to improve our blocks to TRY to improve them.Not countings the money involded . MCF block could actully be cost effective,alot of pro and con.
I've met Mark Kirby, been to his shop, seen his work. If anybody can get this thing to work, he can. He's a real Flathead guy...Just my opinion.
I guess you all better get rid of your Offy, Navarro, Eddelbrock, etc heads and intakes. Oh yea your ross, aries, etc pistons too. Can't use them aftermarket big valves either. WHAT your using multi viscocity oil?????? That isn't acceptable. My point is where do you draw the line, these blocks are no different than a Donovan, Aries, or Rodeck block, and I damn sure not one of you would turn one of those down.
I'm going out to the shop now. I'm on a mission. I'm going to take all of my flathead aftermarket parts (cams, lifters, intakes,carb kits, heads, ignitions, aircleaners, stc.) and make a big pile for the s**** yard. I'm sure the stuff could be better used for beer cans anyway. Then all I'll have left is all of those genuine cast iron Henry parts (blocks, intakes, leaking waterpumps, leather accelerator pump carbs that also leak, heavy flywheels, those wonderful helmet distributers with oilsoaked ignition wires, stock cams and lifters, etc.). Then maybe I'll be able to put together a traditional flathead. BTW, a traditional flathead IS built only with 1932 Ford parts isn't it? how could you get MORE traditional than that? Damn, I'm screwed. I sold the only 1932 block (that needed sleeves all along one side) for $1000 dollars back in 1985 to some clown that was restoring a '32 Cabrolet). Then I foolisly spent $550 of that money for a Chevrolet L88 shortblock and heads that only had 3 runs (1/4 mile) on them. I had built the engine for a guy that needed the money to pay his lawyer for keeping him out of jail. I've still got the Chevy short block and heads. Maybe I'll throw those on the pile too. Then I can concentrate on finding a 265 2bbl engine to build a traditional SBC. Frank
It seems that people tend to look the other way when it suits their interest. No one has a problem using new "original style " wiring to replace dangerous old ones or putting an expesive period correct Bonnie interior in their car. And what about all those aftermarket parts that are made in China? I guess we all just draw the line in a different spot.
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