Nov. 2011 Banger thread. Really...November?

Here is the banger link list .


For the HAMB banger newbies, here are some links to a lot of banger info:

Flat Ernie maintains the monthly link list. Every month is listed:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=161498



Banger basics. another info link list:

http://www.fordgarage.com/

http://www.billsbangers.com

http://www.plucks329s.org/index.htm

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=251717

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=42480

Post #105 of link below shows flywheel lightening dimensions
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470853&page=6

Model B rod bearing insert numbers
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6992484#post6992484


Engine tuning with a Vacuum gauge
http://www.centuryperformance.com/tuning-with-a-vacuum-gauge-spg-148.html

Adjusting dual Strombergs:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6638461#post6638461

Helpful Model A tools and tips:

http://www.maurer-markus.ch/ford_a/tipps.index.en.html

Elrod's stuck head tech:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218487

Model A generator to alternator conversion:

http://ejwhitneyco.com/automotive.html

Gear ratio / speed and RPM calculator:

http://www.accuautoparts.com/calculatorfin.jsp


Model A master cylinder mounting bracket ideas:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...73#post4953173

Go here to read the 1931 edition of Harry Ricardo's book "The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine"

http://www.scribd.com/full/40610101?access_key=key-w2bcjicdancrnxypd05


Chevy Banger Stuff

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=463465

http://www.scribd.com/doc/22469332/The-High-Speed-Internal-Combustion-Engine-Ricardo-1931

Post 198 starts a great discussion of the shape of a flat head combustion chamber

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470853&page=10

Maybe these links should be posted early in each months meeting.

If anyone knows of more, please post them.

 

Anyone find a HAL drawing?

 

Sorry Bluto... couldn't help myself

 

Rear safety hubs !!! what are you guys doing for safety hubs on the model a rear having lost a wheel due to a broken axle at the taper where they usually go I am wondering what you guys are doing for safety hubs are just a simple c type clips from the backing over the brake drums enough or do you have a better idea?

 

Bluto....There is currently one about 5 minutes from me. The best I could do is to take my coloured pencils and try a side view for you.....

 

Kiwi Tinbender American car day today at Woodend just out of Christchurch a good selection of about 400 cars and the standard was very high. Start of summer wheather was just the best very sunburnt sure you want to be there cheers Rusty

 

Russ here's a picture from George Riley's book: Building the 100 MPH model A Ford 1931. there's also a casting that bolted onto the backing plate with 2 long studs and required a steel ring welded onto the wheel hub, this was probablly the most common/effective way compared to the bolt on clips. Pat

 

Hi All,
This is my first post, attached are a few pics of my projects.

 

What I am looking for is info which gives us the cores on the early 29-30 head. This has cam cover hold down around the edge. Later these cover bolts run down the center.

We have a full 360 3D print of the outside on the head. With core drawings we can proceed to build and cast them.

Several Mods are nessary. Intake ports are too big. Both valves are too big both in head size and stem size

These Heads have the plug way up from the combustion chamber Plugs needs to be down in the chamber.

Because of the valve size these heads are easily cracked

So that's what I am doing ..... not going to make the rest of the HAL DOHC Model A kit Our other stuff is OK

 

How valuable is your existing head, if it's not useable or of historic value could you saw it in half and make a rigid foam casting of the interior or water jacket and have that scanned? You would have something to work with to change the port size & shape. Many of those early head designs were influenced by the Peugeot racing engines which had huge oval ports. Pat

 

FYI .....here is a link to the results of the Lee Roy Hartung auction. Some 4 banger speed stuff on page 71.
http://www.auctionsamerica.com/events/all-lots.cfm?SaleCode=LH11

Gary in MN

 

Just picked up a Winfield SBU for my '28 Chevy 4... and promptly busted the idle bypass bung- yeehaw!

1) It was broken before
2) It looks like it's repeairable by rebuilding the area with PC7.

Anyway, the ball was missing from the bypass- anyone know what size it should be or what material it's made out of (steel, brass, etc)?

Many thanks, Bill

And Bluto, sorry AGAIN for the HAL thing
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I can't follow your description, can you take a photo?

 

Bill,

The area that broke is circled. I am brand new to Winfields- the info I've gathered from NWVS stated that there is a ball inside the idle bypass?

 

Welcome to the H.A.M.B. and to the 'Banger thread!

Nice lookin' Model A's you have there, what are your plans? Normally here on the H.A.M.B. it's customary for the "new guys" to give a little intro about them selves and there projects...fill us in!

 

I pulled the oil pan yesterday to see what happened. My original hypothesis was confirmed. The crankshaft sheared between the 3rd and 4th cylinder. Looks like the engien will be coming out this next weekend for some major surgery. I have attached some pics showing what I first found and what is is supposed to look like after I rotated the crank.

I have heard about some counterbalanced forged cranks for Model A's. Has anyone had good experience with them?

The engine was an inserted, non-pressureized Model A Ford engine with a Riley Two Port on top. Some Pictures to look over.

Thanks, Dave

 

I have never seen a ball in there. I have a couple of those plugs that have been reseated due to the same problem you had. I think I shortened one .090. Just make sure the fuel can flow, throw yer head back and drive!

 

From what I see, looks like another case of "too small of a fillet radius"

.

 

Bill,

One side cracked off (the fitting had been glued in as well as the break glued back on), but I'll see if shaving things down is a possibility.

Also, I reread the brochure on NWVS: http://www.nwvs.org/Technical/2104WinfieldHV.pdf

Sorry, I was incorrect about the "ball" on "page 34"- he was talking about how the throttle is cut in/from a ball shape!

And speaking of the throttle, I'm having trouble removing it from the inlet... do I need to remove the linkage bushing(s), or ma I just doing something wrong- bottom line is that I REALLY don't want to break something ELSE

 

I'm sure that this has been covered before, but does anyone use a "metal epoxy" like PC7 that they would recommend for rebuilding the idle bypass bung?

Update- had an idea and went out to the garage to look at the fitting... the previous owner filed down the threads in order to glue it in- ugh.

Does anyone know if Barry Bowyer (or anyone else) makes a replacement???

 

Devcon makes the best stuff. You call them and they will tell you which is best for a particular fix

 

X2 on the Devcon.

.

 

Thanks you two! After getting a really good look at it last night, I may just level the area off (luckily, the air passages are NOT affected) and epoxy a turned-down brass nut in place. After doing a little searching, I can probably find/make a threaded plug form what I can get from plumbing supply or Napa/Car Quest.

Thanks again to everyone for answering my questions, and sorry if they came out in blurts- I'm just getting excited that after a few years of gathering parts, I'm finally getting to the point of having a running engine together!!!

 

If you are speaking of the throttle "butterfly" I would caution you as it has a fine straight knurl on it. It would appear that the "butterfly" was placed in the throttle bore and the shaft pressed in then the bronze bushings pressed in on each side. Other wise the knurl would have to be pressed in through the bore of the bushings. One problem found with Winfields that have been setting for a long time is the throttle shaft appears to have seized. this is usually inside of the bronze bushings. If you force it to turn it might cause the bronze bushings to break free and turn in the casting. I drill a piece of bar stock to clear the throttle shaft and locate on the bushing and place the barstock in my vise vertically then carefully tap the shaft from side to side and this will break the shaft free from the ID of the bushing and allow it to turn freely. This will move the shaft from side to side a small amount in the butterfly and free the shaft up. But if you don't have the patience to do this and press the shaft out and try to reassemble the shaft into the butter fly the butterfly will probably crack if you are just 1 tooth off on matching the knurl. Ask me how I know this!

 

Bill,

The butterfly shaft came out easily, but the butterfly itself gets lodged when I try to pull it out. My fear is that the butterfly has grown over the years- had this same problem with restoring prewar toy trains. the Zamac used by Ives and Dorfan
was sometimes questionable quality-wise and I've had more than a few seemingly perfect castings fall to peices in my hands.

I wanted to remove the butterfly and shaft to clean the carb body, but my guess is that it's best to "clean around it".

Also, the shaft on mine has no knurling- the butterfly is just held in place with a screw.

 

I wonder if Winfield made the shaft and butterfly. I have a couple of what looks like aftermarket replacement butterfly's. they don't have the notches that uncover the off idle port in the throttle body.

 

Mine has the notch, but who knows at this point- I just don't want to break it !

Bill, when the butterly is "closed" I can see daylight on the side opposite of the idle port notch (it's almost a 1/16" gap at the center)... is that normal??? I made a quick drawing at lunch, but can take a pic tonight if that's better.


Getting close to fixing the idle bypass plug- just need to get over to Fastenal before they close today.

 

A video I tried yesterday, using my Mini Laptop . Not the best or easiest device to use as a camera but anyway, here it is. The better your speakers, the better the sound. The four banger sure sounds different with the Pertronix (thanks goes to Bluto) and without the ballast resistor !! I Like it
Ron
p.s. when I put the laptop into the car, I darn near dropped it ....lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA4_teGiAHk

 

I think the little muffler is choking the motor. It sounds a little rich and retarded but again it might be choked......