Projects Olds Rocket 303 into a 40 Ford coupe build thread

Thanks Heathen. I'll check it out!

 

Update for today.

The motor is sort of "in". The damper is removed as well as the stock Olds front mount. The problem that stopped me tonight, is that the angle is not matching between the bell and motor.

The front of the trans needs to come up, but it can't because the rear shelf of the Olds block is hitting the very lowest edge of the firewall where the plywood attaches.

I'd normally just start cutting right then, but maybe someone will chime in here that did this swap.

The front of the motor needs to come up to make the Hurst mounts fit...but it can't because it will make the bell angle worse.

The first rodder that ever lowered an Olds into one, must have S... his pants.. ... you just can't believe how everything else fits. It looks like it was made to go in there. Even the brake pedal pushed to the floor, clears the Olds bell area by factory looking specs. The dist should clear with plenty of room. The back of the heads look fine. The 303 style exhaust dumps perfect on both sides. If you went with a 324 or later, you'd want to use 2 driver side 324 exhaust manifolds, to have it work like the downward dumps on the 303.

I am amazed, no kidding.

I don't have a complete nose, and the Ford radiator is still with the seller, so I can't check the fan, etc. That Y yoke that supports the front of the nose; I just slipped it in there behind where the damper would be, and it kind of looks like it will be OK when the motor is raised up later.

Pics on Friday when I get it all in the correct spot.

Oh, and a friend stopped by before I got it in, and he watched the trans input while I spun one rear wheel; it's a 3.78 axle ratio. I was thinking it might be in the 4's...so I am fine with that.

 

FJ my bros 40 was like that they bent the floor up drilled two holes in the front cross member and used the stock front motor mount also the steering box mount was moved almost flush with the frame rail when we got the car there was no motor .

 

You are the 2nd hamber that said they used to move the box. When I get this bolted in, I plan on measuring to see just how close the box is, and how far it can be moved.


And I did still have the stock front mount on when I started to put the motor in, and I saw how it lined up with the crossmember. I just figured the two rear stock Ford trans mounts couldn't keep the motor from twisting, because they are so close together. I did think about it though

 

It'd daybreak Friday morning....

As Mel Fisher would say; "Today's the day"

I will trim the lower firewall so I can get the motor pulled in the last inch, then try the Hurst mounts.

Then a few wires to some dash switches, find a place for the battery and gas can, mount the 56 Olds radiator somehow, and a few other things.

Maybe see it move for the first time since 1962..... no brakes though..

 

Goodluck Frank hope it all goes well cant wait to see it.
Are you taking pics?

 

They are all a peach these days, and if yours is rough today it won't be tomorrow, I am absolutely sure of it my friend.

 

Coffee break update and to dump some pics.

Two quick posts to keep the pics sorted out;

First pic shows a white chalk mark where you need to grind a tiny corner of the bolt counterbore, so that the Hurst bracket can sit flat. Easy.


2nd pic shows the only problem I found so far; There is no room for the standard size nut for the p***engerside motor mount bolt. I ground down a reg nut to fit in there for now....but look at how cool these mounts are. I never new these would drop into the original Ford mount holes. Any ideas on that problem with the nut???

3rd pic: I remembered the trans was still in high gear to lock the input when I lined up the clutch splines. So, I'd better put it in neutral before I forget... but a once silky smooth shifter was binding bad. The tip of the ruler shows where the 2/3 rod was rubbing the Olds block. A slight tweak and it's perfect now.


Last pic shows several things; You can see where I had to slightly half-moon grind the Ford bell to clear the 4 allen bolts. Also, you can see I trimmed the lower edge of the firewall, but it still needs a bit more.

 

Some pics showing the clearances and how nice it fits in there.


And at 12.30, I started it up and drove it up to the garden hose for water. The clutch works perfect, it steers light and smooth, but no brakes.

Then found a huge mouse nest in the rad top tank. Tried fishing it out while filling the radiator while runnin, and then the old lower hose started leaking... taped it up, and then the water pump started leaking.. and then found out the thermostat was stuck closed.

I just wanted to get it running steady for a hour or so to help the stuck rings. Maybe put a quart of diesel fuel in the oil to help.

So, now I need to go find a new hose, and try a spare 324 water pump. Then maybe I can run it a good long time.

 

2nd pic shows the only problem I found so far; There is no room for the standard size nut for the p***engerside motor mount bolt. I ground down a reg nut to fit in there for now....but look at how cool these mounts are. I never new these would drop into the original Ford mount holes. Any ideas on that problem with the nut???

from this side of the internet, looks like the fuel pump can be dis***embled and re-clocked to move the interfering portion away from the mount bolt.

 

Thanks .... a Duh moment for me not seeing that. I will give it a try, it would be nice if it worked. The power of the hamb, and,..a second set of eyes


Ok, last update with pics late today outside. It runs and moves, and I am beat, so time to rest.

The p***enger side factory generator mount won't work on this swap because it hits the shock tower. So, I borrowed the modified generator top mount from the other hotrod so I could keep going.

Still don't have much run time on the motor. It starts fine cold, but iffy when warm unless you leave the choke closed. Then as soon as it fires, it does not want any choke. If I open it then, it idles like silk, so I am going with a NOS hand choke conversion kit that I have somewhere here. It replaces the choke cover....or just put on the J2 tripower.

This car had rotted remains of dual gl***packs... Anybody know what brand they were? Car was last registered in 1962, so they could be 1950s.

 

I thought that when an Olds engine was swapped you had to buy an adapter that relocated the starter to the opposite side? Perhaps I am mistaken?

 

Yes, in the old days they did.

Two hambers have said they moved the steering box over to be able to use the stock starter location back then.

Or, these days, you can use a mini-starter made for Olds by Ross Racing. He makes both versions to fit either the 145 or 176 tooth flywheels.


Or, attempt to make your own starter from a Chevy aftermarket mini starter, which is what I am using for right now. The nose gear is wrong to fit the Olds ring gear, and the normal 1" thick aluminum plate on the Chevy starter needs to be milled to 7/16". I am experimenting with nose gears. I bought two used mini's, one for $5 and one for $40, so it's worth a try.

 

Ross mini starter worked out great for me and that was as a replacement in a '50 ch***is. Solved the left side exhaust proximity to the stock starter.
Also as I recall, on a 324 if you use a left side exhaust manifold on the right side the oil filter has to get moved.

 

I need to get a Ross starter as soon as I can.

I'll take a look at the manifold swap today as it's outside and I can see better

 

I used a Bendtsens T5 kit in my roadster (see here http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172754) and while it is not a ross starter they used a mini starter as well. I've been running it for a couple years and it gives just enough clearance to use an F1 steering box in a 32 frame. I would think that a mini starter would leave you plenty of space. I also used two left side 324 manifolds. Required some work to get the exhaust around the stock oil filter housing but it works.

 

Frank, Am enjoying this thread. Reminds me of my first build back in '61 when, after my first wreck, I tore my 53 Olds apart and installed the engine in a very old and delapadated 48 Ford coupe. Used a 39 Lincoln floor shift up against some adapter with Hurst mounts. My fuel bowl rattled against the mount so you had to stop often when the engine sputtered and tighten the fuel bowl up. Being young and without funds I could not afford a crossover so we just pushed the car to get it to start each time. LOL. Side gl*** wouldn't p*** inspection so we just removed the windows and drove it like that! Lord, those were the days as they say.
You must be having a ball with this project. Wished I was closer I would come down and take up some of your valuable time.

 

Todays progress;

I bought a new lower rad hose and new 180 thermostat so I could run it a long time to help the rings.

I ran it non stop for 45 minutes outside. But it still refuses to start when warmed up. It runs "cool", no overheat issues.

So, i let it cool off outside for two hours so I could restart it to put it back in the shop. It started, but not great.

So, since it was still a warm engine, I did another compression test. When I was having trouble starting the motor on the stand last week, I had zero on one cyl, and some were 20-25 and some 40-45, none higher.

Now I am 85 to 95 on all, no smoke out the manifolds, but it has noticable crankcase blowby.

So, I was thinking it sure does have enough compression to start way better than this. I then used a second battery to power just the coil. It started so quick I am glad it was not in gear.. So I waited 30 seconds and tried it again, and it starts like new...

So, I have voltage loss at the coil when cranking. Here's how it's wired: I have a temporary race car switch panel in the dash.

- One 10 gauge wire from the big post on the starter, about 3 feet long, feeds the push****on for the starter solenoid. Then a 14 gauge wire to the S terminal on the solenoid.

-Then a 10 gauge 4 inch long jumper from the push****on feed side, to the ignition toggle switch feed side. Then a 14 gauge wire to an internal resistor coil.


So, how and what would you do to cure it? I plan on putting it back like stock, with an external resistor coil, and a ballast resistor, and the start-byp*** jumper from the I terminal on the solenoid, going back to the coil + side.

Any thoughts? Yes, I'd like to have a magneto about now , but I won't run a HEI or Petronics. I just need less voltage drop at the coil. thanks in advance

 

Hi Walt, are you back from Californee? Yes, it is a fun swap, I had a great time, but it went like a blur, actually. Just the poor starting was stressing me because I need it 100% reliable to start, if I need the work bay.....especially this time of year with quick blizzards and Ice.

 

Wow Frank! I'm glad my 'peach' went to the right guy!

 

No kidding, nice work Frank. Gonna be watching this thread now.

 

Mid day Sunday update,


Hey, I still need ideas on how to get less volt drop at the coil. There is NO I terminal on the Chevy mini starter...so..

What should work best?
- A new 3 foot piece of 10 gauge to a spare toggle on the race car dash, to byp*** the resistor when starting..

-Or, how about the Chevy race car deal where they use a Ford 4 terminal fender mounted solenoid to trip the chevy starter for heak sink problems? They tie the S terminal on the Chevy solenoid right over to the big battery post on the starter, then the Ford solenoid sends power to that. Then, I could use the Ford I terminal to byp*** the resistor.

Which would give less drop at the coil? Would 2 solenoids engaging on the "start" postion, make even more drop?


Ok, today's work..

Price of gas went down a little...so it must be time to add more carbs

I was dying to see if the "machined to fit 324" J2 intake was done correctly by Ted over 50 years ago.

First task is to swap the valley cover, because the 1956 and later Olds factory iron intakes have a lower belly that won't work with a 1949-1955 valley cover. First pic shows one valley cover is flat, and the 1956 one is dished down. I did not have a 1957 cover and they must have a tiny bit more clearance on that front air deflector near the front of the intake. You need to trim it or bend it forward 1/4" to clear the bottom of the thermostat well.

And, does anyone know of a modern foreign car or US car that would have a small thermostat housing that fits the J2??? I don't have anything here I can modify, and the only places open today is Autozone and Advanced...I doubt they would want to start opening boxes to compare. Any ideas?

Here's 2 more pics of where it is right now. I may not get it running today because I need so many studs for the carb bases. ....and Ted warned me that he always robbed or drilled the main jets in all his race carbs, so he said I should get correct ones. I am sure I can use the primary jets from the 4GC for the center carb, because I did that once. Or, I can look at the jets in the 1956 Rochester Powerjet carb I have.

One thing that surprised me, was that the modified top-mount generator bracket that was just fitting fine on the 4 barrel intake, now does not line up on the J2 intake ...So I will find my 1956 generator to see if it fits without mods.


Thinking about early Cadillac blue for the motor. This color I used is not right, but I was thinking if I paint it Olds green with the stock yellow lettered Rocket covers, most people will think it's a SBC fauxmobile?


GreenMoster48; I never asked you what motor you were going to use in this car? ..A J2 like your grandfathers 40 coupe had years ago?

 

I was trying to start my 49 303 with 12 volts and just grabed a 12 coil and it would start and right afther it would quit.I added a resister and it kept running.If you have a key start switch ign to resister to +coil.Does the starter have its own selinode if so wire to key switch.Looks like you clear the steering colume ok.I sold my 49 olds last year should have kept it.

 

I had a few ideas. I was thinking about putting a 302 in my truck and using the 8BA flathead in the 40 with some mods. I also thought about a '58 Corvette spec 283 in (i know, SBCs are common but I had some nice vintage mounts for it and some other stuff hanging around) I did think about the Olds or Caddy swap as well. I'll get together with you on the other stuff like the radiator and such I meant to give you soon. Been dealing with a ton of storm damage and 10 days without power.

 

Just use a 56/57 or later Ford solenoid and wire it like Ford and run a resistor byp*** wire to the pos + side of the coil. Ford sol will have two small terminals,( I & S) one to activate the sol for starting (S) and one to give a full 12 volts+ to the coil (I) (resistor byp***) while in the "start" mode, when released to the "run" position, the 12V to activate the start cycle of the solenoid and coil goes away letting it run on the resistor side of the system. I only works when S is activated for the start cycle. Been doing this on GM swaps for years, still works fine. One of the 1st things I do on a GM conversion.

 

F&J I've got new and used housings for your factory j-2 manifold

 

This is the last update for a spell because I have 2 jobs coming in.. One will take a long time.


Anyways, some random pics from where it is. I found an unknown cast iron T-stat housing and had to mill slots and counter bore. I'll get the right one later.

Also, Ted did drill the heck out of the center carb jets, so I took some 55 main jets from the 4GC primaries. I think that is the correct size for this carb. I don't have time to do the outboard carbs yet, but I wonder if the seconday jets in the 4GC are right? I am thinking I need 65 jets? I have 2 of those carbs.


I wanted to use the stock 40 Ford firewall throttle linkage, so that is why all the carb linkage is now on the p***enger side. I made a design error at first, on the outboard carb connector link, so that is why the front carb has the multi-hole deal at the front. I don't need that extra adjustability now.

The front pic makes the 3 links appear crooked, but they are all in line.

When I was gas welding the Ford link to the Eelco main rod extension, I realized that that this was the first thing that needed any welding on the entire swap. That's why it must have been a popular swap, as who had welders back then. I am impressed by that, a very cool swap.. I have no idea how they did the exhaust pipes without a welder, but maybe they used some now unknown, factory pipes from some other car.


I usually run solid blocked base gaskets on the outboard carbs when doing setup, but these are so perfect, and never street driven, so they have no throttle shaft wear. So, I used normal base gaskets. There are no throttle plate vacuum leaks at all on the outboards. Yea!..


No sense in making the gas lines to the outboards yet, as I don't know what I want. Maybe make hard lines with the gl*** bowl filter like the J2 had?


Also took the time to find the trans hump cover in the trunk, so I could make a gas pedal, instead of trying to balance the small twig of linkage sticking up through what's left of the wood floor.. Works so nice now..


I'm not much of a go fast gear head anymore, but sitting in the car, with a good working gas pedal I could not help blipping the throttle quite a bit What an ***... it is pretty cool to feel the car torque sideways when all that heavy Olds stuff speeds up or slows down very quickly. It is VERY responsive for a tired motor with stuck rings.


Oh, and my son donated a new-but-slightly weathered, Ford 4 terminal solenoid. He found where someone dumped a bunch of swap meet parts in a friends hay field, and dragged home some stuff. It did cure the warm/hot no start problem. And I went back to the 1953 coil with it's external resistor which is that round thing near the coil.

All the ignition parts are all old junk that needs replacing; like 5 Chevy peanut plugs and 3 VW bug plugs The plug wires are so bad that I can't get a good signal with the timing light either..


I want to pull the pan to clean it all out and clean the pickup, before I destroy this motor...still have not changed the oil yet either, which is not very smart at all.

 

Looks good Frank glad its running ik how it feels.We have the same numbers on compression.... I see your numbers lol.

 

My compression is still going up, so if you want to race for pink slips, you'd better order some rings for yours

 

LMAO Yeah i have to do something but i am in good enough shape i think. It`ll be fun though. I bet that intake and those carbs are a good set up. your are probably as good if not better than my 4