I know that 6" wide is the rule and I just think that Ryan needs to look at how unsafe that 6" wide tread tire rule is. The cl*** has been around for a good while now and guys are building faster and faster cars. The one unsafe thing that all are running is a 6" tire that was not made for Drag Racing. It would be MUCH safer to move up to a spec Slick tire that every one would run. A slick would make the racing safer and more fun. Having a tire that can't hook up in 1st and 2nd is not safe. With this said,If Ryan doesn't change the rule for safty,I will run 6" 205-75-15 that will be treated with traction compound to the max and I'll set up my car and shift it so the tires hold. Just my 2 cents worth!
I get it!!!! 6" tread tires just are not race tires and someone will get killed!! I use to race a FRONT Engined rail,so I think I know what I'm talking about when I say that a tire that is slipping is not safe and on the edge of loosing control. So when someone gets killed or ends up eating from a straw for the rest of his life will the rule change? Why not be proactive and change it now before someone gets killed!
What Tman said. The tire, without traction compound is what makes the cl*** work. It acts as an equalizer between the high dollar full race engines and the guys running stock or nearly stock engines. There will always be people who want a "spec" tire, engine, transmission or whatever and nothing will kill the cl*** faster or raise costs quicker. If you want to run slicks, a blower, whatever go ahead, there are plenty of places you can run, just don't expect to be welcomed into the HA/GR fold. This cl*** isn't about building fast, modern, high tech dragsters, it's about building and racing like it was done in the early years. Sorry for my rant R***r***hopper, the rules are fine as they are. Welcome to the HA/GR forum, Start a build thread, we would love to see what you are building.
There are several other rules that also need to be addressed for safety with the cars running as fast as they are now but what do I know????
64, Right now you already have a Spec tire,it's just not a safe Spec tire. Also the high dollar cars will still come out on top because they making more HP and even though they are using the same tire they will almost always win. Unless you bracket race they will always win heads up. Even the Bug went to first 4 tires in the rear to get the power to the ground and then to slicks.
Hi Gr***hopper, you are probably old enough to remember the first "funny cars". they were simply altered wheel base supper stock cars. then they started changing to what you see today. Now that old cl*** of cars is now a AA/fuel car, with a plastic body. This cl*** could evolve that same way, just change a rule once in a while. But that is not what this is about. These cars are to be like late 40's and early 50's first dragsters, with newer safety equipment. If you are talking about Coker tires as "speck", the speed rate for those tires is for only about 80 mph or somewhere in that area, but that is for a one hour at that speed. They probably will not heat up like a one hour drive on a hot road.
I have been giving this a lot of thought and Coker makes a E70-15 that has 6" of tread. It's kind of on the high side but would be much better than what most are running. Also Coker might be able to make it out of a softer compound like the M&H or MT tires. Then you would have a safer tire and all the cars would go faster.
First, build a car. Then run it. If you are running in Illinois, where there are no other HA/GR cars to run against, put any darn tire you want on it. If you go to MoKan for the HAMB drags and want to compete against the other HA/GR cars, then put the correct tire on it. If you go to MoKan with your slicks you can still run, just not in the HA/GR cl***.
Radials aren't allowed, run whatever you want, just don't expect your run to be counted. What, exactly about the listed tires is the safety issue? I genuinely don't understand the problem. All my race experience is with SCCA, drag racing is new to me. I get that they don't have the traction advantage and that the speed rating may not be as high as the max speed achieved but the run is so short that you don't have time to generate the heat that causes tire problems. Also, to run at most tracks, you need to build an altered/funnycar cage to meet track safety rules. I'm doing that just for my peace-of-mind. The cage rules are set for car that run much faster than these ever will. If you were to put one into the wall, the chance for injury is pretty small. Shawn
It's not a "spec tire". The rules, (found at the top of this forum) Specify 20. Cars must have rims no wider than 6″ and only bias ply street treaded tires allowed. No radials, slicks, or cheater slicks allowed. Tire tread width must measure no more than 6″. That's all, you can run any tire you wish within those rules. Including a 4" wide treaded tire if you feel you want to. There is no restriction on diameter so go as large or small as you like. As for the high dollar cars always winning because they are making more horsepower that is the equalizing factor of the tire. If you can't get traction to the pavement, all of the horsepower in the world doesn't matter. Before you start flaming the concept, read the rules thread, ( http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=299965 ) all seven pages and 131 posts. Understand the cl*** and it's concept and if you want to build within it's limitations, welcome aboard. As Joe Hamby said, "This cl*** could evolve that same way, just change a rule once in a while. But that is not what this is about. These cars are to be like late 40's and early 50's first dragsters, with newer safety equipment." If you wish to build something else, no problem, build it and race it to your hearts content. Please don't try and change our rules to make the cl*** into your idea of what you want to build.
All together now; "Here we go aga-ain, mmm-m-mm". "If Ryan doesn't change the rule for safety,I will run 6" 205-75-15 that will be treated with traction compound to the max and I'll set up my car and shift it so the tires hold." ...... or you could simply drive the tires as well as you can without smokin'em. You know, like in the early '50s that HA/GR is enjoying re-creating (rather than the "smoke run" mid '60s)? I run'em that way and can recommend it, it's actually fun. I just don't recall traction compound products, gummy retail slicks, ad nauseum then. Then there's also the fact that the first slicks were nearly superball rubber recaps, perhaps part of why Kraft, Arfons, etc, tried multiple hides as well. If what you want is a modern car that merely resembles a '50 dragster, that's no problem, there're folks building and thoroughly enjoying racing exactly that. They're friends of ours as well, we're just doing two different things. As for the devastating fatality rate of the first six years of HA/GRs, SDRAs, etc, (vs certain other cl***es perhaps?) ........ come again?
Gr***hopper, You are like the hundred people I talk to ever year, as a member of SDRA. They all say "I would build a car if you change rule # --." To them I say " you build a car to the current rules, race it, become a member, them you can bring it up and we'll see what the members say. Our rules are serving us very well as written." We have only had one repeat champion in five seasons. I think that speaks for the equality under our rules. We have GMC's (320") down to Slant 6's (235") all running in the 11 sec. range. I say that speaks for our rules (the tires) in a big way.
Dead on, 'Inspector. I also forgot to mention that "racing the hides" (as in the early '50s) is exactly what part of our "thing" is about. So, it's rather less than likely that eliminating that will be something he can "sell" us. Ya know, I could've sworn he claimed to "get it".
This Thread has helped to show me how ridiculous and irrelevant the opinions can be of somebody who is not part of the process. And that includes my opinions... ( I dont usually go on the HaGr Forum, but I knew about this thread because I moved it from the Main Board. ) I apologise if I have offended any HaGr owners/ builders/ drivers in the past.
'Shapes, you've never offended me. I welcome opinions, period ........ even Gr***hopper's. However, when they're based on misconceptions and I have "a dog in the fight" I do try to correct'em. Usually with more patience than I've shown this time, admittedly. The caustic, sneering and presumptous at***ude of his presentation was the primary goad for the tone of my rejoinders. Nor do I hold a grudge. Given even a hint of actual communication I back off immediately and completely. After all, it's the goal that we keep in sight, not the potholes along the way. Besides, it's only fair ..... hell, I've been a **** on occasion too.
I have been quiet on this but I just have to stick my two cents worth in. I personally think that to keep HA/GR and SDRA viable we need the bias ply rule. Bias ply tires are no more unsafe than radials and speed ratings are for sustained use not 15 seconds. If I go all out on horsepower and put $10,000 in an engine build I am at a disadvantage when I pull up to the starting line. Money is never going to be kept out of racing and the only way you can keep the little guy with no money in it is to have the 6 inch bias ply rule. If it were up to me I would specify the a Coker L-78 is the biggest tire allowed and Coker is the only brand allowed. They don't make different tread compounds for Coker and lets face it folks Drag Racing was ruined by money so their needs to limiting factors. At the last race I raced a Jeep powered SDRA car that is making m***ive horsepower but on bias ply tires he went up in smoke with an 11.70 et @ 133 mph while I had a 11.40 et @ 116 mph. Is driving a bias ply tire like driving on ice, no but to get underway it takes some finesse.
I said I was not going to get in to this, but I think that the seperate rules for HA/GR & SDRA on tires spell's it out clear and plain. Keep them as they are!!!!!!!!!! This is for SDRA only, I do not see a real difference between the L-78 Bias tire and the Cooper (street 6" wide tread) tires I am going to use on my new SDRA car other than the side wall may be a little more flexable. The compound is not that soft as they are made to last 60,000 miles. When you say Radials the first thing that comes to mind are "Drag Radials", these copper street tires are just that "Street Tires". Speeking of keeping cost down I payed $50 less for a pair of them, than a pair of L-78 from Coker. If I am correct, that jeep powered SDRA car was running high 9's-10's and it was using drag radials that are not allowed before they went to the L-78, correct me if I am wrong. I just hope the rules can stay as they are so a guy building does not have to spend more cash on a "RULE CHANGE".
I think those who have built or building a car are pretty much in agreement, Good stuff. It seems that groups are springing up regionally that have modified the rules to there liking and thats OK, but I agree that the HAMB Rules stay as is and those of us who choose to race on a NHRA/IHRA track will have to deal with the rules. Just don't tell me my cars not a HAMB Dragster because I have to use a 5pt cage Rocky
That jeep powered car ran 9.49 @144, on drag radials, with me in the other lane. He built that car to our specks, but built it to beat a friends fast bracket car. he is going to de-tune the car and change tires when he races with us. He is not trying to change the rules. And two thirds of the first years hamb cars were built in the Tulsa area, the third was built close by in Arkansas.
Any further details or pics available for the jeep powered car? Several cars here are building with a Rambler motor.
That Jeep is a stroker about 294 in. over 15 to 1 comp. headers built to blueprint specks. Large four barrel. Powerglide.
Joe, is his large 4 barrel as per the SDRA carb rules? or is every one using newer style carbs when it comes to 4 barrels?
I did not look at his carb close, the car is so well built that you just stand there with mouth open. It even has about 4 in wide fenders along the body that look like jeep fenders. The front looks like a jeep grill. #3 CARBURETORS ERA SPECIFIC CARBS PREFERED such as one and two barrel Rochesters, Stromberg 97s, 94s 81s and 48s, or one OEM four barrel, as an example. Carbs must have anti siphon device(s), such as velocity stack(s), air cleaner(s), or air scoop(s) in the 40s and 50s style. No after market or custom carbs. http://tulsaracewaypark.com/SDRA_Rules2011.htm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7FwPlNKOqY&feature=player_detailpage This is that 2 day run, when he crossed the finish line, the time on the time slip showed 0:00 midnight, so he finished on July 9, and I finished on July 10, 2011, I turned 11.53, he turned 9.95.
THe fit and finish on this car is spectacular. It is a car that you will look at all the details because the little things add up. I am amazed at the power that this engine puts out. Drag Radials make it be able to turn the times. 144mph + @ 9.44 ets. It is a Jeep 6 cyl under 300 cu.in. with one 4 barrel. He can drive by me at will.
well guys igot my trusty durometer out and checked the tires on our sdra car 70 was the number .then ichecked my pu and several other cars around the shop also 70 wasthe number then i gave the meter to crk insp and he checked the cokers on bob hindmans hornet, again 70 his other set 65 was the number they are not cokers and ican not remember the name starts with a M .our conclusion was bias or radial street tire 70 was it we checked 14/15 sets of tires . we have one car who turns 1.60s 60 ft times consistly.remember we are running on vht not dry slick concrete . the tire on the jeep car were off our sdra car and are 29 inch tall 6 inch firestones they basicly did a1/4 mile burn out sure did round them up.it also proved that the 6 inch rule works
mudflap261, so are you saying that the cooper 235R/70 and most all other street tire radials that are 29" tall with a tread 6" wide are the same compound that the Coker L-78 Bias tires? If this is true why not leave the SDRA rules as they are " street tread radials or Coker L-78". The No Drag Radials is covered in the rules already.
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