Sparkplug didnt look good when pulled out, need help

The reason it's not knocking w/ the head off is there isn't any compression . Better chk the pistons AND rod bearings before you go any further !!!!

dave

 

Yea I didnt want to go that far but Im there anyway, I was thinking when I had cranked the motor over that if there was anything wrong that I would see or hear it .

Ok if it all checks out and all I need is to lap the valve , should I lap the whole head since Im there and whats the best way to get rid of the carbon build up on the head and pistons?

 

ttt

 

scraper and "wizz" wheels will clean up the carbon. go ahead and lap all the valves, you have it this far apart you should check them all. pull the pistons and check that none of the rings are stuck to the pistons.

 

If you want the rust out of the cooling jackets, you could fill them with vinegar, that should loosen allot of it, and isn't nearly as toxic as some of the alternatives.

Best of luck with it.

 

i pulled the suction cup off my manual lapper and made a bit for my cordless drill.its way faster,just need to be careful not to grind it too much.

 

So when you say to pull the pistons, that is to take them off crank?

If all checks out good then all I have to do is renstall them and re-tork them to spec, I wont have to get crank and bearring redone if all is good?

 

Thanks for the tip.

 

More or less how much time will it take per valve since it was faster to do it with a drill?

I thought it would just about a minute or two per valve by hand.

 

Once you pull the pistons , you're going to have to ,at the least, hone the cyl's & install new rings. I personally would not screw around trying to lap those valves. Don't you know anyone w/ a valve machine? remember, do it right , do it once!! Wire cup brush works well to clean up.


dave

 

I have seen those heads crack across the intake seat and go down the chamber wall down towards the exhaust seat. In your picture I see a small line right at the spot that I mentioned. (just outside of the intake valve towards the exhaust) Have someone with engine experience look at the head.
Smokey

 

What we would do at work is this:

Check the head with a straight-edge, Using feeler gauges check and see how much room you have under the straight edge at various places, Any more that .003" and you need to have it surfaced. Make sure you clean the head before you do this. Do NOT use air tools with wire wheel brushes, there is a chance you will remove metal and not just the dirt / carbon. We use scrapers, and scotch brite pads by hand.

Next, you will need some tools

Piece of plexiglass large enough to cover each port individually.
some sheet foam, tool box liner or something.
one-man brake bleeder or hand held vacuum pump w/ gauge.
Suction cup fitting for the vacuum pump

Drill a 1/4 hole in the plexiglass, cut a corresponding foam sheet for it.

Using the plexiglass, place it on a port, then use the pump w/ suction cup to pull a vacuum in the port. A decent sealing valve will drop the vacuum slowly. A great sealing valve won't drop. and of course a crappy seal will either not pull a vacuum at all or rapidly drop.

You can figure out what valves need attention, and also watch the improvements as you lap them.

 

^^^
Valid point!!

dave

 

1950ed, Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm all for tryin' to do things on my own to learn and save a buck also. You are getting way to much info from all directions from folks tryin' to help you. Find someone with experience to help you in person. You have some major things goin' on with your engine. You would do much better with some in person guidance to help you along.
Smokey

 

I value everyone's input and if I feel its over my head then I have a guy I can call on and let him check it out, but I know its not rocket sicence with these motors, just trying to not spend much more on this motor cause the guy I got it from had said it motor was running strong and is willing to work out something on the deal , I just dont any of us to lose out either way.

 

Just go ahead and rebuild it.

4TTRUK

 

Thinking the same... LOL

 

I'd have the head hot tanked and magged making note of the location of the valve train components for re-assembly if nothing more than a valve lap is needed.
And while it was in the shop for a few days I'd dismantle the lower end just to see what the bearings look like. My experience with loose wrist pin was as others have said, the knocking only showed up when it was running.

And I'd like to add this comment regarding deuceman32's spark plug air chuck post; Brilliant! I'm not a professional mechanic by any stretch of the imagination...that's the first time I've ever heard of doing that,....absolutely brilliant!

 

Draining the oil pan as we speak, might as well as Im right there anyway.

 

Agreed it sure wouldn't hurt to lap the valves in.

You can also get an idea if the valves are leaking by flipping the head over, and filling each combustion chamber with rubbing alcahol, see which ones leak and how fast.....

If your going to pull the pistons you may as well just rebuild it.....gottta draw a line in the sand somewhere.

 

Haven't thought much about these old stovebolts for decades. If I remember correctly (a big if) the 216s had several configurations: pressurized oil system (oil pump) with insert bearings, slinger/splash oil system with inserts, or slinger/splash with poured babbit bearings. Rebuilding anything without the pressure system may not be worth the effort and expense, depends on intended use. Memory refreshment on this topic would be appreciated.

 

I just took a good look at the picture, I see what your talking about..looks like a crack from here...

Alky will leak in there if its cracked....

With the water passages plugged and the head possibly junk I would say the motor is worth less than core price, granted it probably ran with a slight chug...those things are tough...but to sell it as a strong runner would not be right.

If the seller is willing to make it right... I would say its worth a hundred bucks on the high side...

 

Just went through this last year with a 216. We pulled the head and were going to rebuild it & clean / lap the valves. We opted to take it to a machine shop and have it done right. Turned out there were 2 frozen valves and the guides were in pretty bad shape. $300 and 16 new valves, a valve job, pressure test & Fel-Pro gasket later...we had a head that we trusted was up to the task. Slapped it on the original bottom end and went to town. That motor is still running strong and coming back to life nicely. But your pics of the combustion chamber looked exactly like our head when we pulled her off.

Yekoms has a great point about experience. It helped us a a great deal, especially when it comes to possible cracks in those 216 heads. You want it done right. That bottom end is hopefully strong enough to get you down the road a piece. Good luck with whatever you decide, and I hope you get her running again soon.

 

I looked at the bottom of the head and put on my strongest pare of glasses (LOL) and didnt see any cracks , maybe it was just the way the picture turned out. when I get it cleaned up Ill know better .

Also after drainning the oil , I would say it had a gasoline smell to it and black but not like old oil.

 

Ok heres an update, I got the motor on the motor stand and took the oil pan off.

And first looked into the inside bottom of the pan and it looked a little gunkey.

Next I wiggled the piston rods where they connect to the crank and they had side to side play in them. So this motor is no good to me in this form, Im gonna have to get it redone without a dout.

What did they do wrond to this motor to have this play on the crank? Here a video of it.

 

Lot of work for a 216, my friend. A 235 is pretty much a straight swap and not that expensive (yet)
unless you have strong emotional ties to that engine, or wish to use it as a learning aid (which isn not a bad idea) I would stop right there and go looking for a replacement engine

just my £0.02

 

Yea I have another motor motor (235) that is vary good but I was saving it for my 50 Chevy Coupe.

Nether of the 41 or 50 is ready for the road but I just want to get the motor and drivt train out of the way.

I hope I can get my cash back or most of it on this deal, I dont think the guy was trying to do me wrong, I think he just didnt know there was a problem.

But anyway if I get stuck with it (witch I bet I will) I might go ahead and redo the motor little by little so I dont feel the pain too much.

 

I think he lied to you, put the pieces back in your truck and take it back. There's no way this was a good running engine. If you only gave a hundred or two for it, maybe just eat it, but if you paid good money you have a right to expect better than this. JMHO...

 

Yea I would say i have a fair amount into it, $400 but it also came with carb, trans, starter and even the linkegages.

Also another $100 in gas and eats , I dont think the guy is gonna come for the motor since it was just 2 hr drive about 130 miles, and Im not gonna eat that cost again.

Heres what the motor looked like when I got it.










even a chromed out oil filter.



Well we'll see what happens when I contact the seller.

 

That side to side movement of the rods is fine.You want to be wary of up and down freeplay. Id put the pan back on it, make sure the valves arent stuck, Put the head back on and run it.

No sence in getting all worked up. I be that motor runs like a sewing machine.