Hey all im gonna be workin on the old ladys 59 rambler super pretty soon after my car is finished, we plan on putting a camaro clip on it. looking for any advice that anyone has on working on one of these. Will most likely be using a 77 camaro since there is one for sale real cheap that runs and drives. shed some light on this build please! thanks again.
Terrible idea. I believe the Rambler is a unibody design similar to the Falcon/Mustang and Chevy II. That means placing a half frame under it, like the Camaro unit, would be a disaster for suspension geometry. They are also pretty narrow, so track width isn't likely to work out. Ride height will be terrible unless you drastically alter the Camaro suspension, finishing off anything good about it. Why don't you start by deciding what you are trying to accomplish. Settle on the finished product in your mind and then come looking for a means to achieve it. In all likelyhood, a sound overhaul of the stock running gear is going to get you 90% of the results with far less work. A poorly thought out and executed chassis mod of that scale is a sure fire way to destroy the value of a good car. A perfect example is sitting for sale nearby right now. A really solid '56 Chevy that was restored and hotrodded twenty years ago. He's asking $14k because he has so much time and energy in it and thinks it's great, but every single potential buyer that has looked at it said they wouldn't touch it without a stock frame. He'll have to sell it for peanuts just to get rid of it, nevermind ever getting what it should be worth. You may not be thinking of long term value now, but why expend a lot of energy hurting her car's intrinsic value now? There are better ways.
not saying it would work or not, but this guy stuck a camaro sub under his 60 american. http://yourgarage.nbc.com/cars/NRUMBLER?vehicleID=81407
The Camaro is a tad on the wide side for one of these. I myself have a '58 Rambler 4-door that I bought cheap only to find a lot of rot in the unibody rails, and after checking some books I noted a G-body (Monte Carlo, Gran Prix) full frame might work under there. The wheelbase and track were about the same, but I didn't get to measuring the fender width on the two to make sure there wouldn't be any tire rub. Normally I'd be against a swap of that sort, especially with an 80s GM anything, but no one reproduces anything for the underneath of the Ramblers that I know of, and even up here I keep seeing examples of those with a decent frame end up in the you-pick yards so one should be cheap to come by. But to make it work may involve cutting out the entire stock floor and replacing it with the G-body's pans. Which means more measuring. The American being even smaller of a car I'd look at an S10 clip or frame swap under it.
The big issue is that you either set the body on top of a frame, resulting in a truck stance, or you do a body drop to get the sheetmetal down around the chassis where you want it. I don't see any value in raising the floor on one of these to get it done. The unit-body construction in the Rambler is really stout. Rust issues aside, It isn't hard to plate the rails or graft in rectangle tubing as replacemnet rails, then fab a IFS around it. The MII would be easy enough, but may not be ideal, depending on geometry. I think a strut conversion designed for early Mustangs would be a snap in one of these cars. It's really a matter of your fabrication capacity. That's all why I say refresh what's on the car and drive it. Suspension bushings are readily available. Dig deep enough and you can find the knuckle joints.
A 77 camaro clip will not work on that car. Too wide a track width and the steering box being in the front will cause problems that can not be solved with out cobbling. I am in the midst of a heidts superride install on a 62 right now. It is setup pretty low and with a 15x5 and 155 tire it clears the outer fender. This is not an easy install and I have done some weird ones over the years. There was a thread somewhere on here where a guy actually fabbed tubular control arms, rack and pinion mounts, and a strut type mount for coil overs that looked like it worked out pretty well.
thanks for all the input guys, we arent worried about devaluing the car in any way as this is her dream car, we just want it to be reliable and have any part we need readily available. what would be the best set up or subframe swap?
I don't think you really read and comprehended what Scotty and the others just wrote in answer to your original question. The Ramblers/Nashes are Uni-body meaning that they have no frame structure outside of the sheet metal that is boxed into the floorboards. There really isn't anything to tie into right to make it strong enough to run that subframe. You might get by with taking out the original suspension which is fairly similar to the Falcons, Mustangs, Grenadas and what not. and putting a Mustang II style crossmember under it but that will mainly gain room where the spring pockets now are and not gain much extra handling features if any.
You can still get all the parts for the front suspension on those. Rebuild it once with some stiffer and shorter coils, as well as some good shocks and call it done. Sure the geometry is a little goofy by todays standards, but it should still work just fine for most people, unless you are trying to autocross with it on something. If you were REALLY dedicated to the cause of putting a new front clip in it you would end up having to weld the frame rails to the unibody rails, as well as rework the inner fenders to make them mate up to the frame rails, as the inner fenders are a major part of the strength on the fronts of these cars. Although maybe a crossmember type Mustang 2 unit could be narrowed down, notched, and welded into the unibody rails, with plenty of plating to tie the crossmember to the sheetmetal. Oh, also the disc brakes off of an AMC Concorde should fit on the stock front end on one of those. The spindles and everything should just swap over.
Here are a couple of good resources: http://www.wps.com/AMC/1963-Rambler-American/Suspension/index.html and http://wps.com/AMC/Front-suspension/index.html .
I don't see how its not possible to sub frame it if it already has a sub frame on it, and i can weld in sub frame connectors to strengthen it, the car is already front steer and the width of the front from center of tire to center of tire is almost 61 inches so its not that narrow
Look at the Rambler closely and you will see what we are talking about. Its like a Chevy II, or a Falcon, and many other similar car. There are no frame rails like a body on frame car. The front clip is welded to the rest of the car. The unibody rails and inner fenders is where all of your strength comes from. It does not just unbolt from the car. And you don't have 1/8" inch thick frame rails to weld the new clip to. You get to weld to thin sheetmetal "frame" rails, and then brace it all together. Not saying it can't be done, but it will be a lot of work to get it right...even just getting the frame rails to line up could bee a real pain. I would do something like this: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Heidts-Universal-60-Inch-Mustang-II-Crossmember,14962.html cut down to the correct width. I would notch the unibody rails so I could slip the crossmember up into the rails, and then brace it all together with 1/8" or 3/16" steel. The Ramblers were very advanced cars for their time (one of the first unibody cars), and there is no need to throw out all that engineering. Stick with what works.
yeah your right so mustang II would be the best idea? because i dont want to keep the drivetrain or suspension, next question would be small block ford or small block chevy
or rebuild what i have and drop a sbc on the existing crossmember? i wanna do this as cheap and safe as possible
Or build a 4.7L Jeep stroker engine for it backed by a 2wd AW4. Brand correct, loads of power and torque, and different. Sorry...I've been through all of these thoughts before, but sadly my Rambler project is on the back burner for the time being.
im open to anything, i head sbf fit in there nicely or even find an old amc v8? but i like the idea of sbc becaust i have one laying around lol
i am going to put a 4.3 chevy motor out of a '90s chevy full size 2 wheel drive pickup. i know it's off topic but motor is [if i remember right] 26" and just fits without cutting up the firewall and losing the original heater set up.
what will you be putting it in? i know small block ford works because the distributor is in the front not blocking the heater core
60 rambler american convertible. /www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=547111&highlight=2011+barn+finds&page=2
Guys, I don't get it - what the hell do you call a Camaro with a sub frame it bolts to the "UNI-BODY" humm Use some square tubing to tie the rear all the way up front. Hulling the uni-body out for the tubing - put a Mustang II front end in it. Find some Dirt Trackers in your area they do this all time. Maybe somebody can put it in writing for you much better than I - Guess I am saying the same as others I think? HELP SOMEONE!!
This is not gonna be cheap or easy. There isnt the length in the engine compartment for a SBC. The 4.3 V6 just fits. Not saying you cant do this but just replacing the subframe/suspension is a big job then getting a V8 in there will be another big project not to mention the drive train wont take the power. You will want to replace the torque tube setup with a late model rear end. Just saying its a major undertaking but if you go ahead make sure to post a build thread.
Building a car is just like building a performance engine, you can have easy or cheap but not both, especially not if you want it to be safe.
kinda related, im putting a s10 frame under my 49 nash, fits inbetween the rails, fits flush. no picture but it fits.
There would be nothing cleaner than a MustII for the Rambler[American]... I have done this install, what I did was clean up the original Rambler sub rails and plate the missing areas left from removing the orig frt end parts. I then narrowed [2"] a stock FORD MustII crossmember and installed it. I did not narrow the stock maual rack and pinion, [there are enough threaded area on tie rod ends to allow proper toe- in] I did cut a 1/4" off each tie rod threaded areas -so they could move inboard that amount... I have done this swap two times and I know it will adjust for TOE IN and drive properly..... I narrowed it so it would look right as to fender and tire clearances....
Volvo 240 strut suspension if you can find it in USA crosmember bolted to the car R/P stearing bolted to crossmember discbrakes
Im running a twin cam 4 and my car has the stock front suspension..plenty of power and decent mileage too!
sbc will fit and it has been done on the same car with little to no modification. and ofcourse there will be a ranger 8in behind it or a 10bolt definately not leaving the old stuff in there
did you use a mustang2 kit or from an actual mustang2 i what about the volaire front? that just bolts on?
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