Gents, thanx for all the bolt pattern, x-axle, driveshaft, etc. data. I think I'd opt for new rear hubs or adapters to change the x-axle bolt pattern to a more hot roddy Ford pattern ifn possible. Or look for some interesting 4x98 wire wheels perhaps with interesting knock-off style center caps that would cover the 4 lug pattern. Gary
I just parted out a Alfetta Sedan a couple of weeks ago. Car is gone, but I kept the engine, engine bell, driveshaft ( cut to make removal easyer ), transaxle, & DeDion. Let me know if you need any detail pics. I can take some and post them...
GREAT and thanx. At this point, just some general stuff if you please - left / right, etc. By any chance did you take an measurements on the rear end? Distance between strut towers, between the trailing arms, height off the ground of the diff / trailing arms? Gary
No, I did not take any measurements. But I can measure the parts I kept. It doesnt really have strut towers or trailing arms. The DeDion unit is one big tube that runs between the bearings ( welded to really nice forged pieces that the bearings are in ), and two tapered tubes are welded to the main tube in the back and going foreward into another forged piece that holds the forward pivot piont. The lower shock mounts are welded to the tapered tubes and the spring perches and the watts link are welded to the main tube.
Sorry about any confusion on nomenclature... I've always wanted to change the rear over to coil overs, hence the strut reference. Bad idea? RE the dimensions, my plan for a donor car was to measure everything I could at ride height before I dismantled it, shock mounting points, spring length, etc, so I'd get myself in the ball park when fabbing the frame. Not being an engineer or master fab guy, it always seems necessary for me to error on the anal side. Gary
Something just hit my funny bone... would you call a DeDion suspended car "The Wanderer?" Dion? As in the 50-60's singer? LOL. Gary
Wow, im still amazed at how many cool cars you built/raced over the years. I also keep forgettin about the dogfight forum.....shame on me.
Before I get crazy and start looking for a donor car, what is the track width of the Alfa rear end? My 1300 GT Junior was a pretty small car, as are most Alfas. Is the hub to hub anywhere close to Ford's 56-1/2"? Gary
An inch and a half each side? One could make that up in wheel offset, or in tyre width if you set out your wheels and tyres with their outer faces in the same plane.
You're right... sounds like I'm getting too picky. One of the reasons I was a little concerned was I have this idea to build my "special" with contemporary, low profile wheels / tires, hopefully for autocrosses. So the chassis would be built with about 4" of clearance on the small diameter tires for really sporty driving. Most other times, it would use more period correct tall / skinny wheels with Excelsiors, raising the ride height for better all around driving. Not to get too far off the DeDion thread, one of my other brain farts is to use contemporary Wilwood midget / sprint car hubs / brakes all around, including a straight or "smiley" vintage midget style front axle and perhaps torsion bars. More than likely, modifying the Alfa's rear axles / hubs can be done at the same time I'm working out the rear hubs and brake problem. Thanx, Gary PS just remembered the Alfas have inboard rear brakes, so that should figure into the rear hub issue. Duh.
Yep, the Alfa DeDion has inboard brakes on the Transaxle. But its possible to turn the hubs down a bit to fit Fiat discs. Those are really easy to find and not expensive. And they have the right boltpattern. This might give you more posibillities as far as different diffs or transaxles...
Hi saw this thread and though you would like to see my 29 A PUhttp://www.norfolkstreetcruisers.co.uk/Club_Cars_files/A_Build_files/painted-cowl.jpg Alfa 12V V6 from a 75 complete with transaxle and DeDion I should have the car running by Easter 2012 (Famous last words) have a look at other build pics. http://www.norfolkstreetcruisers.co.uk/A_Build.htm
Nice truck, Twin-cam, but for the EFI of which I disapprove. And welcome! (I'd like to think that this is one of the threads that are freer of the HAMB's protocol nazis. You might, however, want to do the obligatory intro post here before venturing into zones where coarser cultures prevail. No use giving them ammo )
Thanx for joining in. I've been to the site you supplied and have been pouring over the info. LOVED the V-6, too. Any way to see the photos in a larger form? Gary
I would think that because of the way a DeDion works the half-shafts have to telescope a bit, or they would bind as the suspension moved up and down.
don't have any useful info on the pro's or con's other than they work well , but i thought i'd post a pic of a de-dion rear end on of all things , a de-dion . this is 1912 at it's best , aluminium v8 4 speed with de de dion rear end in a roadster .
So the design of the CV joint has some "slack" built into it... I knew there had to be some give somewhere! Interesting to note on the 1912 DeDion that there are "limit straps" to keep the suspension from going down to far and pulling on the CV joints. Probably a bumper above the axle, but with the shafts going down at such an angle the upper limit isn't much of a worry.
I doubt if the 1912 car would have CV joints. It'd probably rather have Hooke-type universal joints or some kind of derivative thereof, with one or other of the various components of each shaft running on splines to allow it to slide in and out to make up the difference. Mind you, if the Hooke joints are metamorphosed into fabric- or leather-disc couplings there might be enough flexibility in the disc to achieve the same result. Later applications have tended to feature CV joints, one pair of which might have the ball grooves of one of its components formed parallel rather than circumferential, so that the other assembly and all the balls can slide back and forth. Alternatively, the joints may be conventional and one merely feature a splined coupling.
While not a hot rod Dodge did use one in late 50's a delivery van so that the floor could be lower. It was the only one I have ever seen. They discontinued the use of it for cost reasons. I can see the advantages to this system as to weight and neutral torque bias.
The students finished their built from scratch DeDion axle. We used a chryler 300 diff,hubs and shortened CV axles and 1/4 elliptic springs from a 1962 Austin Healey Sprite.
Nice to see progress on this one. What is the angle of the axle shafts in the horizontal plane? I've noticed that some factory installations have a bit of "sweep" like that. How much angularity do you gain over that through the suspension travel?
Nice to see this thread surface for air again! But what happened to Baumi's photos! I'd also REALLY like to see and update on Mickellis's build (and thread!). Anyone know him? Gary
We never really measured the angles. We did set the whole thing up and move the suspension through the range to check for binding, smooth operation and other concerns. We are only looking at about 6 inches of travel so the changes in angle are minimal. We were more concerned about the movement of the joints inward and outward and running out of range and binding or jamming. The swept angle on our design was kept to a minimum. But the real concern was moving the offset hub too far forward and loading the DeDion tube too much and cause flex in the toe reading and the torsional areas too. We don't really know how much flex we will see. If things move too much a redesign will be in order. Right now with the weight in the project and with a portable laser alignment device we are finding no flex..I expect we will see some flex under power but we won't know till we do a real on the road test and see what happens. The fenders will attach to the suspension. We are planning on mounting some chalk attached to rods connected to the bed and drive the truck and see what kind of marks are made by the chalk on the fenders. That should give us an idea of how much and where the movement is. This is a grand experiment and engineering project. I am no at all sure this will work. This is why I teach. I try to get the kids to get outside the box and take a chance. They have asked, "what happens if it does not work?" My reply as always is we will figure something out and fix it...If we are afraid to try, nothing will get done.
The Jalopy Journal
