This is a picture of my grandfather's Rolls Royce. He tavelled all over southern England as he was the proprietor of Anderton & Roland Amu*****ts/Circus. I believe it to be a 1920-23 model. Anyone ever seen it? On the road? In a museum? Please let me know.
I believe it's a 1923, judging from the (I believe) coachwork by Mullinix. That "V"-windshield is VERY unique for that time period. Very nice Roller! Have you looked to see if the registration plate is UK-current? It may well be on that very same car, depending on whether the taxes were kept up on it. Stranger things have happened!
It is a post first war silver ghost , they finished production in 25 The CO registration number prefix is for the plymouth area Do you mean mulliner? the V wind shield is not coach builder or date specific , Windovers used it alot , here is a picture of a 1929 phantom 1 with windovers coachwork we restored a couple of years ago
Im noticing the shortened front p***enger door( also not suicide opening) and the swooping roof lines...
Patrick66 and KFC, Thanks for the information. KFC, Very good observation on the license plate because my grandfather moved from Plymouth to Truro, right before WWII. Lucky for my relatives, because as you probably know, Plymouth was flattened with German incindiary bombs.
Technically speaking, there was no "Phantom 1" ... the first Phantom was the "New Phantom," the later one was the Phantom II. But yes, the early one was then referred to as the Phantom 1. My own search is for the whereabouts of a Springfield (M***.) Rolls VIN no. S168PM, sold in September 1927 with a Riviera Town Car body and built for the movie star Marylin Miller. The body was unfortunately modified in M***achusetts in 1953....
In the same way there is only one silver ghost , but if you get that pedantic no one know what your talking about and I am pretty sure that once the phantom II was released even rolls themselves referred to the "new" phantom as the phantom I in all technical literature. Unfortunately no one seems to have produced a full ch***is reference book (complete cl***ics) for the ghost and phantom I all the other models are catered for , I'm sire someone has done it but it will be expensive
Yeah, Mulliner was what I meant! I have a buddy whose last name is Mullinix! I figured I was close on the coachbuilder. I was looking at a bunch of R-R pics online and had seen just one other "V" windshield, so I figured that in and of itself was pretty scarce, even in the day. I was curious about that registration, and came up with the same results. KFC, if that (or any other) UK registration is not current, can that number be reissued to a car of the same or newer build year? I've always wanted a '36 R-R Sedanca drophead coupe. I remember seeing one in Denver in the late '60s as a kid, and have loved that style ever since.
If you are commenting about service information, there was never a service manual for the early cars. People wrote to the factory asking questions and the factory answered. Those inquiries and answers were eventually published, and that's pretty much all there ever was.
That is a very good looking car, are the wheels wood spoke or the two piece steel stamped type used on Morris Cowley and others in that era. Nice to know there are Rolls people on the HAMB, I got all my early issues of Hot Rod and 1940's SCTA newsletters from a 1926 RR owner years ago.
No I mean reference books , complete cl***ics do them for pretty much all the other RR models but not the ghost and phantom I http://www.completecl***ics.fsnet.co.uk/ They contain various pictures of body styles + fairly complete listings of ch***is number, original body style, original owner, date of manufacturer + last known owner/whereabouts , not perfect but always a good starting point. Your partly right about service information , there was no workshop manual as such , but the owners handbook did contain a very comprehensive service schedule and instructions , Rolls Royce where always **** with service info they had a real bug up their **** about admitting anything was wrong with their cars right into the late 50's. Re. the reg number , the vehicle licensing agency over here have had so many changing systems I can't remember the all , I suspect if you found the car and restored it and could prove iden***y they would re issue the number but farther than that i don't know
I zoomed in on those wheels and they appear cast of some sort not wood, there is a relief on the face of the spoke. I know that coach builders had freedom with their style and such but this one is so much different from other RRs. The front fenders are squared off, where most Ive seen have a smooth rounded edge. Most limos Ive seen also have p***enger doors meeting at the "B" pillar if you will, this one has a shortened front door and a intermediate panel between the doors. Also the lights seem older by the stands both on the headlights and fender lights. The roof is also way down in the front compared to most Mulliner cars and alot rounder in the rear. Im going to be a stick in the mud and go out on a limb and say it might not be a Rolls...the only thing that is solid is the hood and radiator. ...all this being said, I really know nothing about these things
It's pretty definitely a rolls , You bought a rolling ch***is from rolls which included , grill, bonnet, bulkhead and wheels. The rolls artillery wheels where wooden , I doubt anyone would go to the expense of custom steel wheels but you never know . You took all that to your coachbuilder who would build a body to your specs , they had catalogue bodies you could select (at the larger coachbuilders ) or you could have pretty much anything you wanted money permitting. Popular body styles did get copied by the smaller coachbuilders at customer request, (saving money!) So its pretty hard to be 100% on which coachbuilder did what. Meant to look at my phantom book at the shop today but forgot , I don't pretend to know it all but it has earn me a living for the last 12 years
Questions: How do you manage to keep the aluminum panels so straight without dimpleing? In the area of the windscreen, the wood will dry rote under the aluminum over time. How do you form the aluminum over the new wood with hand tools?
I started this post while visiting my mother during Christmas. My mother is fascinated by all the replies. She ***ures me her father purchased this Rolls Royce new. My Great Grandfather was a friend of Issac Singer, Founder of the Singer Sewing Machine Company. Issac moved very close to my grandparent's estate in 1871, where he purchased a Mansion in Devon. Both Issac and my Great Grandfather became friends and are credited with possibly both owning the first internal combustion engine powered cars in England. Here is a picture of my Great Grandfather and my Grandfather in what I believe to be an early 1890's De Dion.
The wheels match the pattern for a 40/50hp "Ghost" rather well. It's a pity the figure in the photograph obscures the rear wheel, as a combination of ten-spoke front and sixteen-spoke wood-spoked artillery wheels of that pattern would suggest Ghost very strongly, whereas the P1 is typically seen on Rudge-Whitworth wires. Likewise the headlights suit that theory, though I have seen such yokes on cars up to the early '30s. Those headlights are certainly electric. The Ghost was made until 1925. The general trend of the coachwork is quite consistent with the period immediately preceding that date, though that does not rule out an Edwardian Ghost rebodied shortly after the Great War. It was not unknown: here is a photograph of a Ghost here in Cape Town, which was fitted with a Buick or Oldsmobile body around the time of the Second World War. I've had the opportunity to poke my nose about this one. The contrast between the two engineering philosophies involved, Royce's and Sloan's, is remarkable. In short, I'm with KFC: late Ghost.
Whoa, that is a cool Pic^^^^^^^^. These guys were cool! Please tell us more about the amu*****ts or circus and their involvement. Sounds and looks interesting. More pics please. Hi Grandma!!!
Cerberus, Please relay our thanks to your Mom for keeping these photos and sharing the history that goes with them. That De Dion photo is really great. Posting that on PreWarCar.com may get you more info, great site based in the Netherlands, with worldwide visitors. Thanks again. Bob
I would say that this is a 1926 -28 20-25 model. This was after the Ghost and before the P11 (1934?) It's British model not a Springfield, no round front bumper. The Wooden wheels put it in that time frame. Custom bodied, it's pretty radical for a Rolls. Check out the Rolls sites, you should be able to get more info.I've worked on ones before and after this model but not this one. The Old Tinbasher
My grandfather bacame a lion tamer in his late teens. He soon was recognized as the "Greatest Lion Tamer on Earth." He pulled his "ten beast wagons" with a steam engine. One of the steam engines was named "Super Noah's Ark." See picture. I think it is a late 1920's model. He had another one named "Gladiator."
This thread just gets better and better, a steam traction engine and it is still alive and well! This has the makings of a HAMB Cl***ic!
This thread reminds me of the movie "Big Fish"... If your father (or grandfather) ever told you tales that were "too tall" watch this movie with a couple extra handkerchiefs
If that's a Twenty it's the first I've seen on artilleries; and besides it looks a bit big for one. Surely no 20/25 ch***is has enough wheelbase for that intermediate light in the B-pillar?
My Grandfather is standing beside the Rolls Royce. His chauffer is at the steering wheel. When my Grandfather ordered the Rolls, he probably asked for a longer wheelbase because the Rolls was to be driven by his chauffer while enjoying the company of famous friends, such as: Ascott Singer, Lady Astor, Joe Kennedy, President Kennedy's father, etc
Cool! But unlike the bigger models, the Twenty was only offered on a 129" wheelbase. More evidence for a late Ghost or, as I said, an early Ghost rebodied just after the war. I'm more inclining toward the latter theory: late Ghosts were actually not very often fitted with artillery wheels, according to the photos I've been able to find. And it does fit a showman's way of thinking to buy a Ghost that has seen military use relatively cheaply and have a new body fitted. I like it!
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