Why do Pontiac engines suck ??

I'm running a 66 389 in my 37 Chevy shop truck. It sure is fun to surprise people at stop lights with it.

 

Sorry if this is a bit OT, but here's a REAL SBC!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg0k7zDsB8w&feature=related

 

I'm not afraid to use the Poncho's. This 421 does do some Horsepower production and it fares very well against other comparable engines. In the later GM production system the small blocks were all BOPC (Buick Olds, Pontiac and SBC Chevy) were all the same. The earlier individual Division produced motors all made a good account of themselves. The Nail Head Buick's sure showed a lot of racers what a runner looked like. The Ponchos then came in and took over that spot.
Normbc9

 

Why do people put chevys in anything? Because they are cheap horsepower. Ever check out how much a set of Edelbrock Ponco heads cost compared to a small block chevy set? Mucho dinero my friend!

 

You don't need aftermarket heads to make power with them. Like I said, buy the Jim Hand book.

 

Here's one I did a lot of chassis and tin work on a few years back. Running a Butler 505. Best of 8.65 (with some spray).

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Purely coincidently, it's being driven by my ex-wife... Small world.

 

I ran a '70 Ram Air III (from a Trans Am) in a '68 GTO that shocked a bunch of Chevies, MoPars and Fords out on the street. The motor was set up with the technical assistance of East Coast Pontiac wizard Nunzi Romano (Nunzi'z Automotive out of Brooklyn, NY) and was a GREAT street motor. What people need to remember is that Pontiac motors aren't high-revvers..... they are torque producers. You can't spin them to 7000 (or more) RPM and expect them to survive on a regular basis if you are running a stock bottom end. Like any motor, you need the right combination of parts (along with a drivetrain matched to the motor) to have it really perform. If your goal is to do that at the strip, you are going to have to spend some money. The SBC has outsold the Pontiac by a wide margin (especially since the last year a performance capable Pontiac motor was produced was 1978), so they are easier to locate and a more cost-effective target for aftermarket part suppliers, which in turn makes go-fast parts cheaper to both buy and replace when something breaks.

As for my GTO shocking others out on the street? There are too many instances to list here, but I think the son of my GTO's previous owner (himself a SBC drag racer with a '68 Camaro) said it best: "That car is faster than any Pontiac has a right to be!"

 

Mickey Thompson did OK with them. In the early days he manufactured a lot of exotic parts for them. I think they'd be hard to come by today.

 

I've got a SBC in my '73 firebird. I wanted a fuel injected enginem the classic old car with a newer motor look, so I built a 400 inch LT1. It's respectably fast, and I like it. but if it ever blows up, I'm torn between a Pontiac motor and the Gen III/IV motors (LS1). I'm not a purist, my car was bound for the crusher and there's maybe 8 original parts on it. If it was a nice stocker, I would have kept it that way, but since it was a rusty shit heap, I claim I saved one, even if it's got a baboon heart.

 

Pontiac engines suck? Somebody should tell NHRA champion and record breaker Bruce Fulper to stop wasting his time.

http://www.pontiacpower.com/

 

Had a 69 GTO with a 400 and M22 that shamed a lot of chevys
Tune it and drive hard.

 

Heres the real skinny ,Sbc chevy are cheaper and you can get more horsepower out of them cheaper than you can a pontiac motor ,Its the money ,Even big block chevy is cheaper than a bored stroked and bigger cranked out poncho,And chev's rev higher ,Its true even with the mustang guys ,They say how do you get a mustang to run faster ,Drop a chevy in it ,Those guys usually are 383 or 406 chevy smallblock,I still love poncho motors and Ill never race ,Thats just not my cup of tea ,Theres always someone faster.....

 

Is that anything like a baboon ass???.....
Ummm.....Nevermind!

 

concerning cost- I've brought this up before. What is the point of comparing costs? Do you live in the cheapest house? have the cheapest girlfriend? eat the cheapest food? buy the cheapest clothes? then maybe the chev route is for you.
If you are a real gear head, you are willing to spend money for what you want. Not everyone wants what is cheapest.
I do not want to waste money and I am hardly wealthy but, as a serious gearhead, I have no problem spending money on the wonderful Pontiac V8. Could not imagine driving anything that is not Pontiac powered- street, strip or on the water.
Even with this said, I am confident I could put together a , say, 12 second combo with a Pontiac for less money than you could do with a rat.

On revs. Pontiacs can rev as high as you want them too. My 389 spins over 9,000 rpm and should be able to rev higher than that.
Your lower dollar street Pontiacs do better at lower rpms but, that does not make them slower,. Pontiacs make great power with mild gearing for a street car.

The costs to build a higher horsepower Pontiac has also become must less expensive in the last 5-10 years too.
www.pontiacheaven.org

 

nuthin wrong with the Poncho's!

 

Those that think Pontiac's suckpull them out and give them to me!!!

 

Ignorance is the answer to why they do it...ok thats harsh...real reason most likely is the same reason some one races a 4 dr or a wagon or a pickup...it's what they have laying around to work with. Because if you know anything about pontiacs theres no way you would prefer a chevy. Pontiacs live to 5500 rpm with cast rods and crank and thats all you need to put up 450 plus touque and HP, and if you know that going in and build accordingly it won't cost any more than a Chevy and you won't be disapointed. Someone said buy Jim Hands book...excelent advice. I have a 69 big block chevelle and a 66 GTO and for power and drivability the Goat wins hands down. Now building huge HP is expensive, but thats the case no matter what the motor is.

 

Really? That would be the last guy I would ever use to build a Pontiac engine. Just do a google search on all the guys he screwed over...

 

Raising hand... The big guy in post #246 was one of those....

 

Sorry if I opened old wounds. I read about him in a magazine some years ago, and the name stuck. Naturally, there was no mention of his business practices. I guess it's another case of a guy who only does good work for HIMSELF.

Now, can somebody lend me a hand? I've got one foot in my mouth and two more in my ass.

 

Lets not even go down that road of screwed over customers, its way to long......

Joe

 

If you have ever built a sbc and a Pontiac both, I cannot see how you could like the sbc better.

The Pontiac engine is just desigined so much better.
I'll name a few things and others can add,

1. a separate intake from the valley. Makes it easier to swap intakes, you do not open the engine up, you do not have to worry or hassle with sealing the front or back of the intake to the block. the intake surface is at 90 degrees with the cyl deck making it easier to mill the head and keep things in line.
2. a short distributor. You do not have to pull out your dist to swap intakes or even to pull your head. Having that long dick of a dist on a chev can be a real hassle in some chassis

3. a balancer that is bolted on, not pressed

4, 1/2" head bolts evenly spaced around the cylinders that do not go into water passeges

5 no fuuel pump driveshaft to mess with

6. better designed motor mounts where you do not have to pull your fuel pump out to get to you r motor mount bolts ( in many chassis )

7. Starter mounted on left side ( I have seen articles where the 'trick set up on a chev is to move the starter to the left side ).

8. a nice, wide oil pan that does not require a custom pan for stroker kits

9. A much better way to seal the front of the pan than a chev does

10. dual valve springs even on 2bbl engines ( for the most part ).

11. 5/16" bolts on the valve covers

12. much nicer to change spark plugs

13. less expensive 400thms because of bolt pattern

14. interchange! a Pontiac is scond to none! Ig you have a 326 and want to swap in a 455- you get to use the same headers, starter and all accessory brackets and more! Try doing that when swapping a 327 to a 454! It is gonna cost you chev guys a bunch moire money to do that.

15. balancers are all interchangeable from the 1955 287 through the 455. All internal balanced ( except 265/301 )

16. thrust plate on the cam


Who wants to add here?

 

Windage tray- cuts oil aeration and frothing.
Reverse flow cooling on pre-60 engines.
Strong, rigid, lightweight timing covers.
1/2" main bolts (9/16" on rear main).
Cut the water crossover and you can swap an intake in 5 minutes or less.
Machined combustion chambers.
Flat top pistons- easy to achieve high compression.

 

I've made some serious HP out of SBCs and Poncho V8s, and my preference would be the latter, especially in the useable torque department. An excellent design (outside of those dumb-ass nylon timing gears) that makes an excellent basis for a strong street engine.

 

As stated, a smaller aftermarket does make it harder and more expensive for the ponchos but I never really do things just because its cheaper.

I like my Pontiacs all Pontiac.

 

Friend of ours runs a Pontiac in his flat bottom boat.
Its fast and not a problem after I can't remember how many years.
It kicks A** and has made the cover of two boats mags.

 

Factory air gap intake. Distributor is separate from the intake. All connecting rods are the same size in all engines from 1956-1979. Interchangeability between engines is by far the most thought out than any other engine manufacturer..

 

Boats? Pontiac boats? hmm, there is a very soft spot in my heart for Pontiac powered boats. have 2 myself,

Here is my Hondo flatbottom complete with a 1962 Mickey Thompson HEMI Pontiac! It roars!





It gets there with Pontiac power too!



My other one is a '74 Rogers jet, shown here with a 428 Poncho



Building a more powerful motor for it now, 541" MR-1, E heads, blown, injected, etc Here is a mock up

 

Up at the Clearview Cruise in, theres a 1969 Firebird that the guy installed a small block with trick flow heads,roller cam and all the goodies. He pulls a 13.31 and is mighty proud of it. I showed him my $999 400 that was rebuilt in 1991 and it runs non ported stock 1968#16 heads and I do 12.5s all day long and it purrs, well a loud purr and never goes above 175 degrees even on the hottest days. All on pump gas. Like others have said, it depends on the power you want but if you want to go 11s or 10s its comparative or now even cheaper for Pontiacs to achieve this. $1650 buys you a stroker crank, H beam rods, Ross Pistons and all ballanced. Get into high quality stuff for a small block and its about the same. The only difference is you turn a 400 into a 468 CID for the same as building a low budget Chevy.
You have not kept informed in the past few years. Here's a fun little video of Pontiac torque and remember this engine was built 20 years ago and it spends most of its life at high RPMs. this is about 6200 with stock rods.
This is a movie that my beater Firebird is in. It fries the MT ET Drag radials with the low end torque. At 20 mph when the hammer hits the floor those 275 60s beg for mercy!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dTfMAH9UL8&list=UUEINMnZhujPuBIqY-4jHfyw&index=14&feature=plcp
I love cheap Pontiac power!!!!!

 

Here is a cool video. Stock class 400 up against a Ford 428. Smokin!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBNS8Q4moHQ&feature=related

426 Hemi against a 400. Yeah I'd say Pontiacs suck. Suck air and produce power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1wgyVlWyOg&feature=related

Heres a RA IV doing 11.5s in stock class.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1wgyVlWyOg&feature=related

Now Edelbrock heads are $1800 but they outflow the Ram air IVs bigtime. It doesn't take much to get 550 HP out of a Pontiac anymore. The really cool thing is the torque will be close to 600 ft lbs of torque. Lets see dollar for dollar what will produce those numbers. I'd say Pontiac is ahead of the game.