Help Build my 327 Chevy Small Block!

There are far better cams to choose from than this old grind. I have built two 327s one with a L79 stick and one with a Comp cams 268 and the Comp cams engine ran way better.

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is rocker arms. I'm sure this topic is covered in your 2 books, but... just as a heads-up (sorry for the pun):

Early non-hi-po 283 & 327 heads came with rocker arms that don't work well with cams having any appreciable lift. Higher performance small blocks came with rockers that had a little 'delta' mark inside them. These rockers had slotted bearings for better oiling, but - more important - the slots in the pressed-steel rockers were longer to handle cams with higher lifts. You DO NOT want to use the standard rockers and bearings.

When I built my first small block back in the late '60s, I had a friend helping me. He worked as a mechanic at a Chevy dealer and should have known about this problem, but he didn't. I ended up cracking two rockers and bending a few push-rods before I finally figured out what was wrong!

 

I was told once that a quick way to tell a 283 block from a 327 is to look at the two vertical ribs on the front of the block that is just under the heater outlet on the intake. If it is a narrow space that you can barely get your finger in, then it is a 327 block. If it is wider spacing, then it is a 283. From the looks at the picture, then it is a 327. Maybe someone with more expertice than me can verify this.

 

good advice !!

 

Also good advice For an inexpensive fix I use the roller tip rockers. And you guys turning over 6500 rpm better have screw in rockers studs

 

That may be a 327 block, but I'm not so sure about the heads. I can't see the casting mark clearly, but it appears to be a straight rectangle. I don't think 327's had that mark, but early 283's did. Best to check the casting number and date on the top of the head between the rocker studs and valve guides.

 

x2.....

 

Check the heads. Hard to see in the pic but it looks like the one on the passenger side has the rectangle cast on the front. That would make em 283 and the least desireable of the lot.

 

Amazing how no-one on the HAMB has ever seen a 2bbl 327...

 

I wouldn't be surprised for it to have a cast crank.

 

If i remember correctly we would feel the block between the water pump and freeze plug on the drivers side for a casting defect,like a little lump.327s had them,283s didnt.

 

327 2bl with square casing on the head i had one out of a c50 truck heads have 1.72 intake valves i also belive all the small jurnal 327 have a forged crank in them also if ur looking at stock double hump heads 2.02s ar crack pron between the valves

 

First 2.02 valves in a fuelie head (double hump) is a waste of money. They actually hinder the flow instead of improve it in the intake port. (There are many old articles on this) Use 1.94 intake and 1.50 exhaust valves, I prefer Manley valves.
Next all 327 sj cranks were forged. 283 cranks were forged except for some 64-67 Chevy II and some 65-67 light light truck cranks.

Your heads appear from the picture to be probably stock 1.72 intake heads. At least get a pair of power pack heads, fuelies are better. You have the makings of a nice engine with a bit of machine work. I agree with the L79 cam but Comp Cams makes a hydraulic lifter version of the 30-30 cam which is a little more radical. You must use a ZDDP additive for all flat tappet cams as all modern oils are crap because the ZDDP has been removed.

I agree, it seems nobody has seen a 2bbl 327. Also 9 grand on a street engine just dumb unless you like explosions.

 

I have seen a 2bbl 327. The '67 327 210hp Camaro comes to mind. I don't doubt this is a 327 block, but I was questioning the heads. The block has been identified as a '62 and I don't believe '62 327 passenger car heads had that plain rectangle. The block is likely out of a truck. I'd like to know what the letter suffix is that's stamped on the engine boss in front of the passenger side head. That suffix will provide the application for the engine.

 

I wouldn't even CONSIDER a 30 across in something with a 327/700R and 3.73's. I dont know where some guys get these ideas. Have to wonder if they have ever even run the cam in question... Not the first time I have run across early 2bbl 327's with those heads either.

 

I was just thinking the same thing on the cam choice. Id suggest a simple bottom end rebuild with flattops and a set of vortec or other out of the box decent affordable heads and something like a comp 268 cam and drive it.
Theres nothing worse than an over cammed under compression motor with the wrong torque converter and gear.

 

It doesn't surprise me......in my years of working the parts counter in various parts stores/speed shops, I spent more time trying to talk customers OUT of buying a particular camshaft than into it.

 

Strictly from a performance vs $$ standpoint, I would be inclined to agree on the Vortecs. However, since he has elected to go with the 3 dueces, I would have to go with camel bumps. It just doesnt make sense to me to run that intake unless you are also going to run "period" heads. I would either A) forget about trying to make it look period and run EQ Vortecs a perf. RPM, and a 650/750 double pumper or B) run the trips with camel bumps. Since its a 327, and he obviously wants something period, I would rule out aftermarket heads. Of course, i have said this on here before, and a bunch of guys have piped up that they cant tell the aftermarket heads from camel bumps. Not something I would be bragging about on a forum like this, but to each his own.
Wish I'd never even started posting on this thread, as the BS is so thick you need hip waders, but well, in for a penny, in for a pound. Right benno?

 

And here I was, thinking that as hated as the venerable old SBC is around here he'd have been laughed out by now!

And 9k...well, I suppose if you were a valvetrain engineer or an experienced M/P drag racer from back in the day it just might be possible. On yeah, and about $1.00 per 1000 RPMs in build cost if you did it all yourself.

All of this over a 327? There's been some good advice if you pick through it correctly. It's a coin toss as to whether there's been more SBCs built than Model T Fords. Dart cast iron heads are good for the money and they have a design for the older SBCs that will allow your vintage looks without using the over priced wannabe vintage "looking" stuff designed for the newer ones. After that, I'd simply keep it a basic rebuild and a conservative cam. And don't buy into how bad it is to set up 3X2s. Once it's done they run for tens of thousands of miles without tuning. If you want ramshorn manifolds try to get the big ones. I think Speedway sells a repop large version for like $70 each. Watch your duration and overlap in the cam to avoid wasting fuel in low speed driving. The RV cam advice might be just the ticket, but lift in the high to mid 4s is plenty. Where to spend the money? Push rods, rocker arms and valve springs. Spend the time it takes to figure out what length push rod you need to get the rocker tip in the center of the valve at 50% lift. Try to get your static compression around 10. With an RV or equivalent camshaft, you'll still have some added duration and overlap to build TQ, but in essense, the static comp ratio will be higher than what's realized when running at your target cruise range. This all pretty basic stuff. You're not trying to set a new stock class record here, are you? It's easy to dream big as you're turning wrenches and even easier to lose sight of the prize. I guessing the prize is a reliable and good lookin SBC that gets respectable mileage, has enough HP to be fun and doesn't have you under the hood every other trip tweeking the damn thing. Good luck and enjoy the build, but most of all, STICK TO THE GOAL and don't listen to too many "pros". I don't think anyone here would argue that.

 

I pretty much agree but I just cant bring myself to pay to have 461's worked over anymore. (my last set which I got the castings for free were $550.00 done) unless it absolutely has to be period looking.

His mission statement
"I am looking to build an engine that I wouldn't be disappointed with performance or the price to get it done".
I bet by the time he finds a set of humpers and has them done right he wouldnt mind those pesky mounting holes.

 

Tim:

Definately a Cool lil motor. Just built one 2 months ago for my Coupe.
Get Older version of SBC rebuilders book
Pull the heads and check the top of the pistons for a #. (.030,.040 ect)
Heard the 327's can be bored .060 over.
The heads need 2:02 valves, hardend seates, 125# springs, Screw in studs and new guides......if they are stock. About a grand....but worth it.
Roller rockers and 5/8th pushrods.
If the block still has the numbers in the top plate.......I would not deck it.
Should have a nice cast crank, I used Eagle rods. Get it balanced.


Good luck

 

Well, I'll pitch my recipe here as well. For a first time engine build with a 700R and 3.73's, I would use the Crane I recommended, Same cam was sold as the HVM278 when it came out, it was actually designed to be an updated substitute for the L-79 cam. The whole HVM series are very agressive in terms of lobe acceleration which means the seat duration is short relative to the .050 numbers. These cams are very agressive off the base circle, and thats a GOOD thing. The specs on the Crane 2050 are 216/228 .454/.480 on a 112 LSA. It will pull good idle vacuum, which means it will be relatively easy to set up the trips for a beginner. If it was MINE, I would go with the Isky, which is 232 .485 on a 108 LSA. The isky will make more mid-range power, but with the tight LSA its going to lose 3-4" of idle vacuum compared to the Crane, which means its going to take a LOT more skill and experience to tune properly.
I would go with flat-tops, and deck it to get around .040 piston/head, including the head gasket. in other words, if you are going to run a Fel-Pro composition head gsaket, have the block zero decked. If it was MINE, again, I would go tighter, but I am leaving a margin of error for someone with less experience. I would pick up a set of early 1.94 camel bumps with no accessory holes, and have them rebuilt by someone who knows what they are doing. look for a shop in your area that has a history of doing engines for stock or super stock class racers. In fact, punching 2.02's into them is worth power, but in order to realize any gain, it must be done in conjunction with pocket-porting, and relieving the chamber wall back to the bore adjacent to the intake valve, and I think this is outside the abilities of a first time engine builder.
You will probably need around 12 degrees initial, 38 total. This sounds like a lot with the 10.5/1 but with the tight squish, you will probably be ok, as the vehicle looks to be reasonably light, not have a hood, and with the 3.73s will accelerate reasonably quickly through the bottom of the power band. in other words, it wont be lugged, or under load for long at the rpm where detonation is likely to occur. You would need to run good pump gas, this is not a motor you want to run on 87 octane.

 

Thanks everyone for the help and replies. This thread will be a learning tool for years to come.


Next the heads are number 3814480 which are found on BOTH 283s and 327s The date code matches close to the block F122 so they are the stock heads.

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</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I double checked against a few different websites so these heads will be going.

The way things look right now, I will rebuild the bottom end using stock components with cast pistons. The big debate is going to be between 1.94 and 2.02 valves and which cam is going to go in. Looks like I will take it one step at a time instead of trying to figure the whole engine out at first before the build.

The shop that will be doing some of the work is an experience shop that built the engine of the front engine dragster called the "Hemi Hunter"

 

I agree with all the L79 comments, great engine with no fuss.............

 

My first job out of high school was at a machine shop/race shop tearing down motors and I mean several a day. On regular old core/rebuilder motors I used a piece of 1/4 steel rod about 3 feet long placed on the bottom side of the piston and smack with a hammer. I cant remember it not ever working. Judging by the mushroomed ends this had been working for quite some time before I got there.

 

The difference between stock 1.94's and 2.02's with the pockets done and the chambers relieved around the valves is going to be in the area of 30-40 hp on the build I outlined. If you can get the pocket porting and chamber work done for a reasonable price, its well worth it. The cost of 2.02s vs 1.94s will be virtually a wash, and if they go with the 2.02s they will be cutting the seats on fresh iron, as opposed to seats that have been cut 3-4 times over the last 45-50 years, and are sunk too deep to flow worth a shit.

 

I like a milling CRV1 cam shaft in a small block chevy motor ... Talk about hitting this baby hits hard ...

 

The 350 HP, 327 cam works real well.