1922 Dodge 4 cylinder supercharged?

Thank you Rich. The fenders, hood, cowl and top are are black on my coupe. The main body and disc wheels are very dark blue, with yellow pinstripe. This body style, called Fisher Coupe or four p***enger coupe, only came that way according to the brochure.

 

Hello Rich, If you were to lay a straight edge across the gasket side of your original head and measure down into the combustion chamber to a low point near the spark plug hole, what would your measurement be. I would like to compare with my Ricardo.
Regards.
Alan

 

I have another need for my Dodge touring car. I have a set of 24" Houk wire wheels and lack two lock rings to have a full set. Is it possible that anyone here may have or know of someone who has a few lock rings available for sale?
Alan

 

PM sent

 

Some general rules about supercharging.

Atmospheric pressure is about 14.7 lbs at sea level. That is what your engine is working on now.

Double that by adding 14.7 lbs boost and you should double the horsepower. To do this you need a very special engine built for supercharging, to stand the doubled stress. By the way it will not be an exact double because of the power used to drive the supercharger, pumping loss and friction.

It is possible to give an engine 4 or 5 pounds of boost without doing anything special to it. Examples are the Kaiser of the early fifties and the first turbo cars of the sixties through the eighties. This will give a 25% or 30% boost.

McCulloch claimed in the fifties that their supercharger gave a 40% increase in rear wheel HP with 5 pounds boost. This seems possible as the McCulloch is a centrifugal supercharger with low drag, and rear wheel HP is already reduced by friction losses in the drive train which will not change when you add a blower.

If you want to go to 8 or 10 pounds you start to have trouble with head gaskets, bearings, etc. but you are getting a HP increase of 50% or more. The turbo cars of the late 80s are good examples. Some of them used intercoolers etc and got this much and more.

The advantage of supercharging an old motor is you can get a boost without hunting down impossible to find speed equipment. No doubt you could get a 25% to 50% increase in HP without a supercharger, just using ordinary speed tricks. But keep in mind, getting the HP is one thing, building a motor that will survive is another.

 

Hello Rusty O'Toole, Your information is what I have been searching for. The small roots blower is capable of 5 to 8 lbs boost, depending on the speed of blower. I certainly understand building a high horse engine and what can happen. That is the reason I look for a conservative boost from a blower, maybe 20% and not cripple the bottom end.
Thanks again for your response.
Alan
PS: What would you do to get more twist out of an early series Dodge 4 cylinder, short of the blower and not cost the value of the car to complete?

 

As I am sure you are aware of, most blowers I have ever seen were driven off the crank snout. Where did you plan to drive your blower from?

 

Rich is the Dodge snoutless? Years ago before billet cranks were commonly available people bored out the front bearing of a SBC and installed a BBC snout as the original was prone to fail driving a 6-71 under race conditions. Could the Dodge be bored for a snout? Pat

 

Check out the Graham Paige type system. It was run off a jack shaft with a 90 degree gear set up. Ther were a pull through deal and only gave about 4 to 6 # boost. The 221 cu in 6 picked up + 20 HP with no other modifications. So if the
Dodge 4 is similar in displacment a similar gain is probable.

I would think you could accomplish the same gain with just a improvement in compression ratio. Even the 30's Dodge 4 cylinders were running in the 5.2 to 1 neighbor hood, so whether you increas the squeeze by forced induction, or by clamping it in a tighter chamber, it seems comparable gains could be realized through milling the head of fitting a compressor.

The other thing you eed to consider is whether you are going to **** through or blow through the carb. Blow through raises it own problems as the carb is designed to work at 1 atmosphere, pressurizing it creates some conditions that need to be dealt with. Compressing the gas air mix creates some problems also, albeit no serious at low boost. Also the type of blower you have or use may dictate your other induction choices, as some don't like (weren't designed for) compressing a mix of fuel and air.

None of these can;t be dealt with but need to beconsidered when making your choices.

 

This is a '26 Dodge Bros. Note that the crank is enclosed in the front mount casting. On mine I cut the front housing off short and made a new piece to mount a SBC front seal. My crank uses a SBC diameter snout and dampner. I then had to make new side mounts for the engine to replace the old now gone front mount. This also shows the one and only intake port on the Dodge. Round hole in the middle. It seems that a blower is about the only thing that could make one of these breath. PS the yellow one is the one with hop up parts.

 

hmmmmm, I had not given much thought to the drive issue for the blower. I see a dilemma! The old speedster I looked at a few years ago has a belt driving it from the front. I had ***umed that it was from the same source as the fan was driven from. I am going to try to track down that speedster again and do a much closer evaluate. Another car, the guy owns, is a Kissel Gold Bug speedster. That is a nice car! Rich, if I chose to do it, could you give you ideas on running a modified snout and conversion on my, more or less, stock engine?
Alan

 

That 5/8 shaft that drives your fan, distributer, water pump and generator is driven by a fiber cam gear. And pinned to the driven gear by a 3/16 pin. Not to sure about driving a blower from that. Cutting the snout shorter and fabbing a plate and seal is pretty time consuming. Do you have a mill? Also I cut the front off of a V8 Chevy pan and used it to replace the front of the Dodge pan. and fit the new cover. In all this I lost the OEM oil pump. Not sure it's a really good way to go for less than an all out race motor.

 

Rich, In your idea, what would be the best way to drive the blower then, all things considered? Be aware the blower I am looking at is not big and does not require much HP draw to run it.
Alan

 

I am not much in favor of a supercharger on your Dodge Bros. If the Montana boys can't help you, you will just have to go it on your own. They have a Moldex crank and special cover, chain drive cam, and billet main caps with insert bearings and pressure oil. As do I. If I really wanted to pressurize a Dodge bros. I would think small turbo. And then I would add a small aux oil pump to lube it.

 

Hello Again Rich,
Your opinion is well taken. I had not given much thought to running a turbo. I wonder if my low compression engine has enough dynamics to make a turbo do its thing? Especially where running RPM's will be low. I have not been around turbo's very much.
Alan

 

The only turbo installation I ever did was on my 270 GMC back in the 70s. But here is what I would do if I was determined to blow a 24 Dodge. I would find a small turbo from a 2.7 or 3 liter car that had a seal on the intake side to prevent oil being ****ed from the bearing housing into the intake. Like a Corviar turbo I used. hard to find and I don't think Ray Jay still makes them. I would then mount it so that it blew almost directly into the intake port from slightly above. So any droplets of fuel will run into the intake tract. The water jackets and exhaust ports should ensure the gas remains vaporized. Remember this is a slow moving air column compared to a new little buzz motor. If you run a wast gate you can get your reference from the intake log cast into the block below the exhaust ports. I would rather start with a rather small carburetor and limit the intake air as a way to restrict my boost. Or perhaps a larger single barrel carb with a restrictor plate that you can experiment with it;s ID to achieve your 5 or 6 pounds of pressure. Run an exhaust pipe in and out of it. Hopefully incorporating a solid mount to support the weight. And I would run a small oil pump off the fan drive to oil the turbo bearing. Of course water lines if you use a 2.2 Chrysler turbo or similar unit. My friend Jack Costella uses the 2.2 turbos and they work well for him on **** through deals.

 

What are you trying to accomplish? If it was mine I would leave it stock or just put on the Ricardo head and enjoy it. If I wanted to go faster I would get out and walk.

Seriously if you want to go over 40 or 50 MPH get a newer car. To make your car keep up with modern traffic would be an exercise in futility, like trying to make a pie out of a cake mix.

 

The first picture of the rusty engine is the same block as the yellow one, isn't it Rich. I can see the crack you repaired in the water jacket.

 

In my opinion you could easily add your desired 10 HP+ without adding a blower. Just do a cam, a high compression head, and improve the breathing and you'll be astounded. We made 100 RWHP naturally aspirated with our Fast Four in 2009.

EDGY speed shop www.edgyspeedshop.com can grind you a cam, and he has a pattern for our head, but you'd have to design your own cusbustion chamber as our design is proprietary.

Hope this helps.

Pedro