History Historic Stock Car Photos

That looks to pretty well solve the front hoop question. I got one on the roll up windows. When did they take the stock side glass out ? Also did they remove the stock side glass to run short tracks or just roll them down. Looking back thru the years in pics and from what I remember I'm not sure. It did seem that USAC stocks had started removing side windows long before NASCAR did. Mid to late sixties somewhere.

 

NASCAR rules eliminated side glass during the '70 season (after the season began as, if IIRC, they still ran side glass at the '70 Daytona 500). Most teams had used roll up windows for aerodynamics at big tracks (especially Daytona) up until that time. Most teams did not use side glass at smaller tracks (save for Riverside where side door glass was used to keep interior dust down). Rear windows were plexi from the very early 60s onward.

 

^^ Thanks. Also I did not know they were using plexi for the back window that early.

 

C5HM, thanks for the great photo of my Hero, Fred Lorenzen.

 

Mine too!

C5HM-10047 @ Goodwood in 2004

 

What a great shop pic! I even dig the candy machine.I had one like that a while back.

 

Ok, whats the story behind this one? Man, what a sad ending. Was anything other than the VIN tag able to be saved?

Kevin

 

More than the VIN tag, but not as much as I'd like. But that's the way you find H&M Galaxies...if you are ever lucky enough to actually find them. Very few were built; very few of those survived.
Ground zero:


In process:



Sub-components:


Brakes:


Roller (HM8-033 in the background waiting its turn):



Donation from Arizona:


Soon:

 

This is just an amazing resto. I see the back end of the frame was widen originally, and looks like a whole new piece was manufactured and installed. Why did H&M widen the frame back there?

Also I have a question regarding the Firestone tires. These, I take it, are not for street use. However, they appear to have tread on them and I love their profile. I know they're 15" tires, but what's the rest of the stats on them?

This is going to be one beautiful racer when it's done. Any chance it might be done this year for a showing at Occoneechee/Orange Speedway? I plan to visit the old track this year located in Hillsborough, N.C. for the September event.

Keep up the great work.

 

John, Actually H&M narrowed (about two inches)the rear frame rails of their early Galaxies (that wasn't cheating, was it?) for sidewall clearance. Jabe Thomas had an intimate moment with the retaining wall when he was driving it in 1966 (the '64 was Jabe's rookie season and sophomore car in '65+'66) and shortened it up considerably.

He had to clip the car and put a new bustle on the body. In the process he mistakenly thought (I'm assuming) he had to widen the frame back to stock. You will note he also removed the narrowed rear cross-member, too. Those were all things I had to fix (then there was the rust..HA!)when returning the car to 1964 Holman Moody trim.

The tires on the car are the correct Firestone 800s that were used late in the 1964 season. The front two are NOS and the rears are used.They are hard as a rock, but will serve for show duty. I'll use modern rubber for vintage events. As you may know, stock car tires were treaded throughout the sixties. the first attempt to use slicks came at Talladega in 1969. But treaded race tires were the norm for several years after that. Technically all stock car tires in the 60s were "8.00-8.20" X 15s. At least that's what was on the side walls. Prior to 1965, those tires typically measured 29" tall with around 8" of tread width. Those early tires were much more "78" series in profile than the "70" series style tires than came into use in '65 and later. Those later tires typically measured about 27.5" tall and had about 10" of tread width.

Thanks for the kind words. Not sure when the car will be done I do all of my own work and I am getting old and slow. It's just a hobby, so I take my time.

 

This might be a reach- but I'll try anyway. I've followed every post of this thread and haven't seen any...Does anyone have pics of any of the Dodges raced by the Swangler brothers of East Grand Forks ND-driven by the late Mike Swangler? Mike was killed by an unfortunate roof hit following a rollover in Fargo in the mid 70's and was a driving legend in ND, SD, Minn, Winnipeg Manitoba, etc. My ex ended up with my old programs (Don't ask how THAT happened- I still don't know how she managed that!) and I have no more pics. I believe his brother Rick still runs their wrecking yard in ND.
Those were the days- running flat out on a dirt 3/8 in Winnipeg that was measured on the inside of a 3-4 groove track with corners banked like Bristol in Mopars with Kit Car chassis that were still easy to find! The only Camaros were the 67-69 box bodies and big blocks outnumbered small blocks by a HUGE margin.(Small blocks with 180 degree headers sound like die grinders full of bees)

 

BTW...Thank you DR Craft for those awesome resto pics- those are modelling reference gold. I must have missed "em on the Ayers site! You have been an immeasurable help to me over the last couple of years in building the most accurate museum quality scale replicas I can. Your pics provide details that no written description can ever hope to.

Note to all- C5HM is THE source for all information about Holman Moody and his restoration credentials regarding those machines is second to none...

 

Doctor Craft be da man!

 

Super pictures and lots of memories. Allstarracing

 

Thanks for the kind words guys. I just love the old cars. I miss those racing days. Modern NASCAR leaves me cold.

 

That's great to hear (well, read, I guess).

You hit the nail right on the head about modern big time racing in America. Spec chassis racing just blows. Back in the day the cars were as full of character as the drivers were and I miss it.

Kevin

 

C5,
Thanks for the info on the tires, and no I didn't know the frame was actually narrowed in the rear. Interesting. Now regarding you being old and slow I must say if I had half the ability you have, I'd think I'd died and gone to heaven. You just keep doing what you are doing. It's what keeps you young.

Back to the tires for just a moment, I'd like to put something like that size on my '72 Fury III. Like I said, I love the profile of them and they look like they would give a fairly comfortable ride as the side walls are not one inch in height. (Reference to ridiculously stupid 22" wheels with a rubber band for a tire.)

The only thing I have to do is see if there is something like that available commercially, and what kind of clearance I have on the car.

Couldn't agree with you more on today's NASCAR. I think it's become insidiously BORING, and the organization has left it up to the drivers to make it interesting, because the cars they drive sure as hell aren't! All they seem to do is change the nose and tail piece every year. Ooo WOW, that's sooooo exciting.

 

C5HM, what's the history on the HM8-033 chassis you have there? Would that one be a 1968 Fairlane based car? I just love the stories and pics of the careers of these old historic racers. The "as found" pics I find really interesting. The '64 in the field was a great find, I can't believe it survived 41 years of spikes in scrap prices. Did the owner know what it was?

I'm new to this thread so I apologize if you've posted this info before.

Thanks,
KRH

 

Congrats on bringing one of those old HM cars back to life...super job. I, too, love the old-school Nascar stuff and detest what Nascar has become. Good luck on your project.

 

John: 255-70 X 15s measure out pretty close. You might give them a try. I've got a set of Firestones that size that I will be using on a replica '62 Star-lift Galaxie (streetable) that I plan to build one day. I've got those tires, a spare NASCAR/H&M spec suspension set up and a spare Starliner roof for the project. Now all I need is enough time left on the clock to get it done. Got to get the '64 and the '68 done first. THANKS for the kind words.

Here are some progress shots on the Galaxie re-body so far:

 

This is the way it was "back in the day", as my kids would say. This Fairlane was owned by Tommy Jackson and Fulmer Lance and driven by Fulmer. I helped build and maintain it. The car had a '58 Ford frame, Boss 302 engine and Franklin quickchange. We had roll bars made out of black steel pipe. The '58 frame never handled as well as the old '55-56 frames we had used before. Most of the car was made right in the garage with only a few "bought" parts. No fuel cell, I think we had a Volks Wagon gas tank and a truck radiator of some sort. We used bolt on front spindle snouts and wide five hubs with drum brakes. We ran the local N GA and W NC dirt tracks.

 

KRH,
HM8-033S was Bobby Allison's, Bondy Long prepped, 1968 H&M Torino. Bobby drove that car early in the 1968 Grand National season. He did OK in the car (finishing third in the Daytona 500 behind Cale and LeeRoy, for example), but by the middle of the season, Bobby had bolted Bondy for a Mopar ride. AJ Foyt drove the car at the Firecracker. Sweded Savage filled in at Rockingham and Little Bud Moore finished the season in the car. The car ran in Sportsman after that and then was put out to pasture:



Somewhere down the road it will look like this again. But the '64 comes first.


Based on my research, the car was originally built as a 1967 Fairlane (Chassis # C7HM-10111) for Bondy Long and was campaigned by Dick Hutcherson that year. H&M rebodied the car as a Torino for 1968 and gave it a new VIN ( A very common practice in the days of "cost-plus" contracts HA!). I am partial to fastback Torinos, so I will be restoring the car to '68 Daytona trim.

 

Good stuff. It looks like it still had a Torino body on it? How long did that one sit before you rescued it from the pasture? Did you get any of the suspension with it?

Thanks for the info,

Kevin

 

Kevin, I do not know how long the car sat in the elements before it was discovered and put in dry storage. I do know the fellow I bought it from owned it (and stored it in a warehouse in Alabama)for the best part of fifteen years before he agreed to sell it to me (I can be very persistent). The car still carried its original H&M tag and a goodly number "witness marks" identifying it as an Allison Torino as purchased. I got lucky and turned up (as posted) a copy of the car's "dollar" contract to Bondy in early '68. So, it is well documented. That's a rarity in a world this is increasingly populated with replica race cars.

The old war horse will need all new sheetmetal to bring it back to 1968 Daytona 500 configuration. But that is the norm with '60s vintage stock cars. Most teams in the day had only two cars at any given time. And they regularly got "rebodied" (in minor and major ways) from race to race to replace combat damaged tin. As mentioned this car was rebodied in-house by H&M to up date it to Torino configuration at the end of the 1967 season. So it had lost its sheet metal "virginity" long before it was put to pasture.

 

C5,

Again thanks for the info on the tires. I noticed that the upper and lower control arms have what appears to be reinforcement down on them. Was this the norm for all stokers of this period. Or was just germane to H&M products. Now I should leave you alone for a while as I know you have lots to do.

John

 

thie picture looks like the old occoneechee speedway in north carolina.long abondoned.but i have been there.they are trying to bring it back to some point.but development is closing in.look it up on the web.great place with lots history.

 

John Not sure what other teams did. But I am sure they too modified their cars' control arms to adjust camber and caster change and ball joint angle. H&M early Ford's also sported lower control arms that had spring perches moved outboard for better spring angle during compression. Reinforcing was also common.

 

I loved seeing this old pic of my Uncle Dave! It reminds of when my cousin (Dave's son) and I would play in stacks of tires for hours on end. Thanks for posting!

 

Get a bag of popcorn and a coke . Check this out your liable to there a while

http://public.fotki.com/tona/

 

Hey guys, I may be late to the party but I just read where our own Indybigjohn was inducted into the Kentucky Motorsports Hall Of Fame. Way to go John,all of us from Indy are proud of you and all your hard work over the years.