I have had powder coated wheels and painted ,the powder coated wheels kinda looses their shine quickly kinda chalk ey lookin.I dont think I will never get any more coated.I think if I do anymore they will get painted with a good high gloss single stage.Am I the only one feel this way?
I have a sandblaster so went through the blast, primer, paint process on a set of wheels Never again. Spent about as much on supplies to do it myself as a coater in OKC charged me for another set. Unless you just want to do it yourself, get em powdered!
You said you had a hard time believing that I could get them done for $25 as you could only find them for $75 or more. Seeing as we live in the States, you should not have questioned what we can and can't get done for $25 . As far as Medical, I'm with you 100%. My premium just went up to $568 a month and they only pay 40% of my prescriptions and on top of that, a $2000 deductible. My brother lives up there and has great medical for his family of 4 for way less than I pay. Right now most get their insurance paid by their compny they work for. Just wait until the companies are hemoraging because of the high premiums. No insurance for anyone!!!
Back to the question originally asked, I hope enough information has been exchanged for the OP to make up HIS mind . This thread has been a fun read though.
Wow.... Since Powder Coating IS my thang, I feel compelled to deal with some of this nay saying. This big long post does some good explanation of problems with powder coating... however.... there are a number of ways that Good custom powder coaters deal with these issues. Problem is, That wasn't touched upon well here. The Faraday Cage effect has it's place (and is most commonly found a problem) where folks that have no clue what they're doing, are the guys operating the powder guns. It's kind of like giving a Wet System paint gun to a kid and having him paint complex parts from one side only and hoping he has it painted.... He can't see unless he moves around and aims different directions.... So he misses a BUNCH. The bigger issue is, he ain't making his money based per piece, so he just flat doesn't care normally.... This works the same with powder.... to a degree.... While the illustrations are good for what might be encountered on a piece that went through an automated system, It's not necessarily all that common to turn out pieces with those problems, without having dealt with the lack of coating, and corrected it. While manufacturers have a pretty tight set of QC rules, some time they don't have to meet standards that an individual might have, or maybe the government or whoever else may have something coated.... It's a good illustration of a KNOWN problem, that has been dealt with by most manual coating guys. We're familiar with techniques to work it out.... While Faraday Cage Areas are often more complex than that example, a good custom coater can typically work with and around all the problems that come up like these. Some may move to a Suspended powder liquid, that can be painted on with a brush (Powder to liquid or Liquid to powder... whatever the place that's selling it calls the stuff) or gun. This stuff gets mixed with powder, and brushed onto the areas that are tough (for those who don't have the gun, skills, or both), Let it dry thoroughly, and then shoot the powder on the remaining parts, overlapping them well, to allow a smooth transition.... Orrrr..... Maybe the pulse technology available on some guns can make Faraday areas seem like child's play..... Generally speaking, there's technology out that all but eliminates this particular issue. Sometimes just knowing how to get powder to go places that an automated machine cannot deal with is the answer..... There's a way to get the whole wheel coated completely and with plenty of powder.... I suggest taking the wheels to a custom Powder Coater to get those types of attentions. Be wary of Guys in their garages like me... we only do this on the side, so don't be in too big of a hurry. It takes time to give attention to detail, and turn out show quality wheel coating. It's not that we can't handle the Technical aspects.... it's that day job thing..... Some of us don't do powder for a living as well.... some are mechanics and some are computer geeks.... the coating is a labor of love for a lot of us.... we are perfectionists. Now.... I'll not argue that there are paints that will rival the powder for toughness, but I will express my concerns for either, when it comes to chipping and scratching and such. Powder is NOT magical.... It is NOT SCRATCH proof..... It is not somehow Bullet Proof..... It is Still an inexpensive coating, that comparing dollars to dollars for typical Body Shop Paint, is still cheaper in the long run. It's tougher typically than any paint system that is within the same price range (especially when it comes to metallics and special effects). Man... The Downer is intelligent people who DO NOT know about how to apply powder or do not do it themselves..... They often throw it under the bus like this and it's not necessary. The Coating Process, and the Pre-treatment processes can be done by a knowledgeable coater in any setting, with the right equipment. Just as a good paint job can be done by anyone who is knowledgeable and has the right equipment. As with Paint, Powder requires the right Prep. Prep is EVERYTHING with both types of coatings (and almost any other type of coating). You Have got to have the right prep work done to Chrome plate stuff too,... or anodize.... all that as well. I have a hard time with the 25 dollar Wheel coating price,... but that's because I have a really good idea why they're that cheap..... It's not typical of your local custom powder coater, to have the coating line that these guys are sending the wheels to. They coat them for Semi Tractor Trailers for less than they're charging for the wheels they send in for you.... About 4 bucks a wheel is probably about right actually. In popular colors. They have the stripping, Blasting, Phosphating (or Phosphatizing), Coating, and curing process all automated and the labor in their facotry is all machine maintenance and keeping the powder hoppers full, and the blasting machines all running.... It's crazy to try and compete with that level of price for most of us Custom Coaters. We do this stuff on a ONE-OFF, one at a time basis (maybe a full set of wheels at a time, or a hand full of parts at once... very small batches). The issue of Gloss level is one that I'll just flat out define as Bogus. I can get ANY gloss level a guy wants on a wheel... Intake, Valve Cover, Bracket, Suspension part... etc. They make powders in just about any color I have seen, with ONE set of exceptions.... I have yet to see a true Multi color Flip Flop, such as the chameleon Stuff on the Mustang a few years back, called Mystic (or Mystic Blue). I can do 2 color flip flops, that flip from Blue To Green, Purple to Blue, Green to Bronze,... and several more.... Our real Cryptonite is not Faraday Cage Areas anymore.... It's Chrome Powders. No matter what a manufacturer calls it, You HAVE to put a clear on it and that makes it a very Shiny Silver.... at best. I can do flat colors, Wrinkles, Crinkles, Sandpaper textures, Metallics, Candies, Super Gloss.... Fluorescents, Wild and Mild..... Multiple colors, Multiple Layers.... Ghosting,.... FADES,.... Damn near a "you Name It" kind of thing,..... all with powder. These are things you don't find in a Line coaters place, or a batch coaters place.... they shoot grey all day for utility boxes.... or Caterpillar yellow all day for.... you guessed it, Caterpillar.... That kind of stuff. When you call on a Custom Coater, Your imagination and his talents are your only limitations.... I have one particular Supplier that touts "over 6500 colors". I have about 14 suppliers too. The cool part is having all the knowledge and resources it takes to make stuff right. I have it. If something comes my way that is out of the ordinary, Just like all the Hambers Help one another out, There's a Really Great bunch of Powder Coaters that are willing to help me find answers. I do the same for them. In the powder coating circle we all try and give good info where we discuss issues. Not having full knowledge of things outside powder coating, we all stick our heads together and go out on the web and hunt til we find everything we can, and we discuss it.... just like here. I know there are a few guys on here that powder coat their own stuff.... I don't know who they are, but they know *some* powder coating (some know a lot too). If they only do the stuff they get from Eastwood, they're not gonna have all the knowledge.... unless they have really done some digging. I'll direct you guys to all kinds of powder coating sources... hook you up with someone more local to you for more personal advice and/or expertise. I can set you up with reputable places that will back their coating with Guarantees (workmanship being the key here). More on coating - Just to address some stuff mentioned above. Some powders are as flowing as a good quality wet paint. Some are not. Depends highly on what the powder is formulated to do. Some powders have flow agents added to them to allow for a WET finish. These powders do indeed flow into creases like the seams in the Steel wheels. Unfortunately, most people don't know one way or the other, what they're asking for when they order up powder coating work to be done. Every project has it's own desired outcome. Every project should be approached that way, from the owner of the parts, to the coater. Some powders are designed and formulated to do other things, such as Heavy film build, as in High Build Primer powders. Others Seal Substrates so the topcoat won't be screwed up by poor casting issues, that typically arise during Cure, as the temperature makes castings, release casting media, grease and oils that otherwise would never be an issue. These same items can be the reason wet paints fail, as they generally don't come up til after the coating, wet or powder, is finished. The cool part is, the powder coater that knows his Stuff, can actually prevent this kind of failure. We call that stuff, "Outgas prevention". Some powders are good at handling chemicals, some are good at UV protection, Some are more decorative than anything.... They even have FDA approved powders, Glow in the dark Additives and Pearls and flake available, just like wet paint!!!! Generally I'd rather see us talk about what CAN be done with Paint and/or Powder, not knock one for the other. I know damn well, there are just as many ways to screw up a wet paint job as there are ways to screw up a powder coating job. Both can be done well when done by knowledgeable, well equipped applicators... skillful guys.... both can be done by hacks. Getting either done WELL, requires some attention, and if you cut corners and go for the cheapest option, you'll get half ***ed short term results. Just like any other specialty, There's magic **** I ain't sharin'.... lest you want to contact me personally for more info about something specific.... Powder coating is good. Painting is good. They both have their place on any project. I'll certainly recommend powder over paint on wheels.... It's what I do. But I don't knock paint either. (I'd like to also advise that powder can be a great base coat for a FANTASTIC paint job, while Anodizing is a Great Prep for Powder coating). I have cleared over painted stuff as well, with Powder.... Pretty good Protection for a Stripe Job on Smaller Stuff. I'd just put wet over those murals though..... While I won't advocate Powder Coating on a Vehicle Body for typical vehicles due to the aforementioned "repair if chipped" issue, a lot of these T's and A's would be great candidates for just such coatings. Have a look.... http://www.rodauthority.com/features/car-features/streetwerks-goes-to-werk-on-this-29-roadster/ All I want is for everyone to take a look at Coating as an option. A lot of guys are already on board with it..... Others will stick to the traditional paint types. That's cool. To The OP : It's your call an how you proceed. Do your homework on Powder if that's in your options list. You may come up paint anyway, but there's a lot of really good about any type of coating, if done properly... Even Coating, so don't let anyone Sway you away from it due to their perception of it's viability. If it's Metal (and some plastics now - -) It can be powder coated WELL. Powder Coating has come a long way. It's also got some growing to do, as far as repair-ability... although I hear some of the European Auto Manufacturers are starting to use powder on entire bodies..... That should at least say something about its viability.... Anyone ever try and shoot paint inside a Car Frame? It ain't easy is it.... Huge Rant Off..... I hope this actually is a starting point for some of those reading.... It's barely touching the tip of the iceberg so far...
Thanks for all the interesting replies, didn't mean to start a roaw but I think I'm going to powder coat.
Powdercoat is not TRADITIONAL! I think the bot have their apllication, but im on a rant! No honestly on wheels I would go with paint for the chip issue. Those guys with chipped pc wheels know what I mean, paint is way easier to touch up!
I don't get the chipping problem some of you are talking about. Mine look like the day I had them done two years ago. One thing I don't like about priming and painting wheels is that the paint will blow out in the crevices between the rim and center section. No matter how you turn down the air pressure you get that void area right down in the seam. I've sprayed them with the wheel in every position and that area still stays bare. As for shiny, I think the PC ones stay shinier too. Guess it depends on the powdercoater you use. Don
Base coat clear myself... High solid clear coat is pretty tough stuff.. And they shine. But clear coats not Traditional!!!!!! Nor is unleaded gas Fu$& wtd
Years ago I worked at a place that had powder coating, and as I could either do the work myself or supervise it, I had everything on my SBC Pop (Anglia) powder-coated: ch***is, axles, brackets, interior panels, engine parts, etc. That job went a long time ago and since then I've avoided coating, mainly because of the problems with flaking off in sheets once it gets chipped and rust gets under there. I realise the technology has come a long way since then, and there are spe******t coaters who know exactly what they're doing with car and cycle parts, so you can get a quality job, but you won't get that for $25 a wheel! If you just want some colour on some wheels that you'll run for a couple of years before changing out for something else, or just moving the car on, then cheapo coating would be fine.
Hello Pot, Kettle here... Nice to meet you. LOL!! Ok, you're a custom coater, I'm an OEM coater. I've been in it for 20 years in every horribly nerdy and boring way imaginable from liquids to powders and dip coatings like e-coat and a-coat, heat sublimation graphics, hydrographics... fades, flames, 2 tones chamelions... Yawn... The fact of the matter is coatings should be thought of as prescription drugs for individually unique medical patients. In a perfect world we'd love to prescribe the very best coating process for every unique part out there based on desired apearance and the physical performance requirements for the part. What's most important for this individual part? Gloss retention? Abraision resistance? Chip resistance? Chemical resistance? Heat? Does it need to glow in the dark? Is it a grippy rubbery protective thing? Does the part get extensive UV exposure? Is it a marine application? The whole chipping vs scuffing resistance thing is tough to balance. "I don't want it to chip, and i also want to be able to wipe it down with a dry dusty rag without creating micro scratches..." Well that's just one example of where you can easily achieve one or the other but both at the same time is difficult. Hard surface finishes that work best for holding gloss and resisting scratches are typically so hard that they can chip somewhat easily and flexibility is very poor. Coatings that are best at chip resistance unfortunately tend to scuff and loose gloss easier. That's just one example of trade offs in the coatings world and it's much like anyone elses world of expertise. Tires, engines, steel, fuel, lubricants... everything. As far as painting goes, there are many things that are equally suited for powder or liquid coatings. Just as some things just make sense to powder coat rather than liquid and vice versa. The points of concern I made in my first post are things that I see novice job shops stumbling on and it's what give's powdercoating a bad name. (unfortunately) ****py prep, undercured powder, poor coverage due to inexperience, poor ground or what ever.. The customer's expectation is very high because powder coating is supposed to be the ultimate. If the expectation is high, then people need to treat it like engine work, be concerned and seek out a reputable shop. Have confidence in their abilities before you turn your stuff over to them. To elaborate on my previous "magic" statement, the magic isn't in the powder, it's in the prep and the process. The magic is in the knowledge and abilities of the coater. Not every Joe out there with a bag of powder, a gun and an oven is going to do the same kind of work. "I'm sending it out for powder" does usually raise a red flag with me because there are too many nimrods out there low on knowledge, low on experience and relying on the powder itself to do all the magic. Awe ****, look at all these damn words... Dammit I did it again....
sounds like you guys are on top of your game and its been very informative so may be you can help me out.The wheels don posted pic of is exactly what I had on a 32 roadster,and a 33 and a 50 ford and a set of black merc wheels on a 40 and they are nice but none of them stayed that way.Never used any harsh chemicals on them always kept em clean.Bought them from a well known tire and wheel guy we all know that I wont mention for the fact my black ones on the 40 started peeling and reveled primer underneath the powder coating but he was real good about replacing them.Is there a process that will actually keep the shine or is it somebody doing a half *** job?I mean 4 for 4 is not a real good average or am I expecting to much?I love em but they just dont seem to keep the beauty
Thanks for the info. I talked to him earlier this week and he pretty much suggested I get the wheels I'm getting ready to buy from him powdercoated locally instead of from him.
They make powder clear coats as Scottrods mentioned and someone else here had a really good recomendation with the high solids liquid clear. I'm trying not to be all paint nerd talky/ultra long poster. Short of it this: Prep! If you are starting on bare metal make sure it's clean and give it some tooth (some sanding scratches or a blast finish) If you go liquid start with a 2k epoxy or an etch prime if you like (I like epoxy) Urethane base and high solids urethane clear. You can do it all with powder and make it last and shine like crazy too but you have to locate a shop or a coater like Scottrods, he sounded quite p***ionate about his work and very knowledgeable too.
That's all good Dave.... I think we agree quite nicely. You hit the nail on the head with the "Nimrod with a bag of powder" statement and such. I just didn't "feel the love" much on that first post, and wanted to make sure that others understand the possibilities. To date, I have done some coating that needed some better knowledge (years ago really) and my knowledge has grown exponentially in my coating years since. But I have done precious little coating for others until lately, as I am very knowledgeable in my hobby now, and I have the confidence I believe it takes to do this stuff properly, for other people. I don't have 20 years of running anything 'cept my mouth I guess.... but I have a real soft spot with coating. I work My nards off to educate folks all the time, and hope everyone that learns from me p***es the info around liberally. Just like Speed Shops and speed equipment is the p***ion a lot of the guys on the HAMB share, I have that same kind of p***ion for Powder Coating. As far as I'm concerned It's an art form along with a science.... Coatings have come a LONG LONG way since the 60's for sure. I intend to keep on growing with the Technology. I'm not JUST talking about Powder Coating either. There are some paints and processes that are amazing, available now that were not possible ten years ago. A lot of it very desirable stuff even to some of the traditional guys.... if they discover it exists. I'm loving the newer Firearm coatings as well.... but it's a wet process and I am not set up for Wet Coating of any kind. Although I don't do the Hydro graphics and Dye Sublimation Transfer printing, or anything as fancy as that, I can mask off colors and mating surfaces with the best of 'em .... With time I really would like to add some of these technologies to my repertoire as well. Maybe even some ceramics and such too. But I fell in love with Powder on the first ****py little job I pulled from the oven.... It was nowhere near perfect, but it was incredible to pull a piece from 400 degrees, let it cool for about 10 minutes and Handle it with my hands.... ready to put into service..... That fast. From there It all goes crazy.... I found myself coating tools and dishes and all kinds of stuff, just to learn more about what I could do. I'm now the proud owner of about 110-120 colors of powder, and about $11k in equipment and supplies for Coating. Damn these "hobbies". I digress (and of course write too many damn words as well)... Again, the point is to make sure folks know the options and how they apply. Finding a powder coated wheel for 25 bucks is not an option in my opinion.... But a set of really well done Powder Coated wheels is pretty darn good for even a Traditional Rod.... this stuff has been around since the 60's.... or a little longer even. I saw a Neon Pink Cragar SS earlier today.... ! Manufacturers are almost all using powder as their coating choice nowadays... Especially on Alloys. EVEN for a clear coat on machined Alloys. Can't be all bad huh? We're all good I hope, Dave (and anyone else that may have taken my first post on this matter, as an argument with Dave. I bet after all his years in Coating he knows whence I come from). Carry on... lots to learn here... but we'll continue on powder coating on it's own thread later.... Got a Gas Tank to Coat for now.... G'night.
Scott, I just started messing with some epoxy primer powder and the stuff is very impressive. It's meant to be a 2 p*** process where in you shoot the epoxy, bake it, then shoot your top coat, clear over that if you like so it could be a 3 p***. But the epoxy is very impressive, the stuff really has some throw too it. Excellent coverage. I also recently changed my prep (pre treatment) to non phosphate "nano" conversion coating and I'm running 750 hours in salt spray testing with powder over treated steel with amazing results. Not even sure I belong in the 750 test duration, thinking about bumping up to 1000 hrs. Even the old guys like to keep pushing the envelope. :grin: I wish I had your pasion though, that kind of juice ran out for me some years ago lol! Later.
Yeah, most manufacturers don't even know what a Custom coater can do with their products nowadays. If you follow the Manufacturers specs you get their results though.... all of the Epoxy primers I've shot recommend a partial cure for intercoat adhesion as well, which is KEY to the Durability in my estimation. Who's Nano coating are you using? I'm always up for a new product for even better prep.
After painting my Wheel Vintiques myself, and chipping them several times before even getting the car on the road, I took them to Crosslink in Denton, TX for powdercoating. Fair price, fast turnaround, and man they look great. Incredibly durable as well... the same banging around that chipped the paint doesn't even show a scratch on the powdercoat. Wish I would have just done it that way from the start instead of wasting all that time trying to paint them.
Paint 'em. At $25 (4@$100) to $75 (4@$300), an upwards of, and me being a somewhat cheap *******, it can get a little pricey to coat 'em. Prep is the key, same as in coating. Decent results, though not as durable, can be had for a fraction. The battle scars that come later, are just testament to life on the road. In the future, chainer types will be paying a premium for 'roadworn' & 'relic' wheels. Any of you pickers out there familiar with Fender guitars will know exactly what I'm talking about...
I have learned a lot reading this thread which brings up a question for the experts: what is the best way about having wheels custom matched to a custom paint mix? Can the powder be color matched or is it possible to paint and then clear powder coat over the paint with a low cure clear?
Honestly I'd shoot the car's base color on the wheels (same liquid as the car's body gets) over a good prep and I'd topcoat with a high solids clear. A good high solids clear liquid is tough as nails and your match will be spot on. Henkel NT1 Alkaline cleaner, rinse, rinse, NT1, rinse, 180* dry, powder, 410* cure. The partial cure for intercoat is definately the cats ***. They do the same for Aquence (chemical deposition epoxy or "a-coat" or "autophoretic") It's like "e-coat" but it has better inter tube throw power and uses chemistry rather than electicity to attract the paint solids to the substrate. If you do a dewet (partial cure) then powder and let it all full cure at powder cure temp, it ties together really nice.
I completely agree with Dave on the color match. However, I have about 4 or 5 places that will color match powders to paints.... It's astronomical pricing, so I recommend the other way around.... Coat what you want powder coated first, then match it with wet system paints instead if you WANT powder coated matching parts... much cheaper to get the Body Shop guys to match powder than the powder guys to match paint. Dave's into some really cool Powder Coating... I can tell. It's probably boring stuff, like coating Wheel barrow brackets or something that takes the fun out of it, but sounds very technically on top of things.... At least his company takes the time to keep up on the tech stuff. It would probably kill me to do the work You Do, Dave. That's why I have a day job, not in the Coating Industry. Keeps my P***ion of it much higher. What do you guys coat?
I've done a lot of paint and powder (of small parts) at home. Powder is nice but you need good equipment to get even coverage. I do like the "one coat and your done" and the clean-up with a vacuum parts. However..... powder does not get into the tiny seams and on steel rust may rear its ugly head. It's happened on stuff I've had professionally done so its not just me! I shoot Emron for rims. The new (6000) series base coat / clear coat has a crystal clear unlike the old 5000 series that was slightly yellow. Long as you cut & buff within 36 hours its good. After that, forget it! fyi, powder that isn't cracked makes a good base to paint over. Just scuff and go. Good Luck!
Metal lol! I was in the "power sports" industry for many years coating ATV's and snowmobiles. I currently do more residential outdoors stuff. Textured powders that blend in with residential colors. Some prospects of high end comercial grade zero turn mowers in the near future. I'm testing Some of the new "primid" (DuPont euro) and DuPont "super durable" formulations for the mowers stuff. That's really tuff stuff with awesome UV resistance. Someone asked about a brand recomendation for the high solids... I don't know, its so compe***ive... Just look for the highest solids clear available in the brand you are using for the rest of the car. The super high solids are a pain to cut and buff because they are so damn hard when cured, but we're talking about wheels here so I doubt cut and buff would be part of the plan anyways. Just wet it out really good when you spray, as much as you can put on without running it. I've been using a lot of "kirker" stuff on my home projects cause I'm a po-boy, but I've had really good luck with there stuff at a fraction of the PPG/DuPont cost.
The Jalopy Journal
