Electrolysis rust removal question.

I've been trying out the electrolysis method of rust removal and love how well it works. Definantally works best with a clean anode. I have read stainless steel makes the water toxic but does anybody know how well titanium works as a anode or any hazards created by using titanium? I got a chance to pick up a small scrap sheet of it and would like to try it but I don't want to make a toxic water especially since my tank holds 330 gallons.

 

I am NO expert on the subject but I was told by using other metals you can also make toxic fumes which can be deadly...I think putting crome parts in the mix does it and I am sure some other metal will also...Miller

 

I am trained as an electrchemist. I sat down one afternoon and figured out the electrochemical reactions for electrolysis of water using stainless steel ( mostly chromium ) as the anode. I can assure you that chromium 6 ( the most reactive and poisonous chromium ) will be produced. Chromium 6 can and will kill you in time.

 

I knew that stainless is bad as well as chrome but I have no clue what is in titanium. I'll just swing by home depot for a new piece of mild steel for an anode to keep derusting at least until I can get a graphite anode so I'm not buying sheets of mild steel weekly.

 

Any old hunk of iron or steel will do, as long as there is no paint and especially no galvanize coating on it. Galvanized will release a poison gas.

When they get grungy hit them with a wire brush or grinder. Old scraps of rebar work fine.

 

Use vinegar instead. It takes a little longer, but you're not creatng what looks like a meth lab.

If you use stainless the water won't get as nasty, but it does give off hydrogen.

Vinegar does the same thing, but less hazardous.

 

Beau, I was under the impression the hydrogen gas was a byproduct of the process itself not the material? What ev, I use steel and do it outside and dump it in the drive to kill grass.

 

I don't use 330 gallons at a time, but I do use a piece of stainless for the anode. I was not aware it put off chromium. I do it in a well ventilated area and I don't hang my head right above the tank either. I think, if you put chrome in there, the chrome would come off too, or is this only a factor at the chrome places, because they use that process to remove the old chrome before they refinish.

 

Seriously, vinegar does the same thing, just slower and safer. Put the battery charger back on the shelf, go to the grocery store and buy 5 gallons of vinegar for $10.

 

I've been using the electrolosis method for rust removal on my F1 pickup project. I've used it for the smallest parts all the way up to fenders and pick-up bedsides. The beauty of this process is that it is fairly quick and cheap to do for large items. I've been using the same rebars for annodes for over a year now. As said before, a quick wire brushing and they're as good as new. Assuming that your using steel annodes and a sodium carbonnate solution, the only hazard that I know of is that the tiny bubbles that form in the solution is hydrogen gas. I don't know if there is a suficient amount of hydrogen gas produced to cause a build up and explosion hazard, just use common sense and do this in a well ventilated area.

 

don't use stainless....as mentioed before

you don't need it..
do this process outside

small jobs use vineger or molasis

 

I was at this garage sale and got this old heavy duty battery charger from the fifties... and when I used it in my electro barrel it literally blew the rust off the parts.

The slower the charge the more rust you convert back- the higher the charge the less of a conversion but man I could drop a flathead head in there for an hour and it would come out CLEAN.

I used vinegar too- it works but its really slow... and stinks. ;-) and it doesnt convert any of the rust back into steel- its acid- and its SLOW like a month to do what I would do in a hour.

I used that expanded metal and made it wrap around the barrel so that it would project the part from all sides- yeah and dont use stainless- just plain steel! The only drawback to it up here is that the water freezes in the winter and it has to sit outside obviously- the little bubbles are hydrogen gas.

I really miss that old bat charger damnit! Maybe a small stick welder would work? adjust the amperage down and go--------->

Tuck

 

the hydrogen build up is an issue on large parts ...ie bomb

 

just dont have it INSIDE... if its outside there is no way for the gas to build up.

 

Proper ventilation and rebar.

 

What on Earth were you doing with the discharge?

Chromuim 6 (aka Hexvalent Chromium) is IMPOSSIBLY toxic.

 

Hexavalent chromium is what got GE in big trouble during that whole Erin Brockovich thing. We're talking Superfund cleanup type stuff. If the EPA finds out you've been dumping that on your lawn, they'll react like you were dumping mercury. Do NOT use stainless! We are NOT kidding.

For scrap anode, I just strip out old PC cases, scrap dryers, copiers, that kind of thing. Though even if you do have to buy cheap sheet from Lowes or something, it's still cheaper than buying gallons and gallons of vinegar.

Doc.

 

I've got a 5-gallon bucket I do it in... just took one long piece of 2x1/4-inch flat stock and bent it into a squared- "U"
Bent another one the same.
Laid them across each other so the bottoms formed an X, with the uprights set 90-degrees apart, and welded them together. Suspend the part from a rod across the bucket, clamp the rod, clamp one of the uprights, and go.

The process releases the hydrogen from the water (I THINK that's where it comes from... Hydrogen gas is given off, regardless of the source). Don't cover the container, and do it outside so the hydrogen doesn't collect.

Docs is exactly right--stainless as an anode will release Hexavalent Chromium, and that's exactly what was in the Erin Brockovich story. (This is weird... I just wrote a story on this process 10 days ago for Muscle Car Review, and used that exact example).

Vinegar works fine, but there are two issues: Once, it leaves the metal with a gray color and/or "pickled." Don't know how that affects parts, but I don't think I'd want it on machined surfaces like the trans yoke I just rescued.
Second thing is that vinegar is acid... it eats rust, but it also eats the base metal. Depending on how long you leave it in there, you can chemically mill your parts. Probably not a big deal on door hinges, a potential problem on machined parts like a steering sector, trans yoke or spindles.

-Brad

 

No,vinegar does not do the same thing.Vinegar attacks the base metal along with the rust,since it is an acid.Electrolisys does not attack the good metal,just the rust.I usually have something cooking in my tank,tools,nuts and bolts,cast iron frying pan,small body parts etc. I use any scrap iron I have lying around for anodes.as a side note,I get my sodium carbonate at the local pool supply store .

 

I just bent a piece of scrap metal into a "U" shape in a Rubbermaid tote, and put a piece of fiberglass screen in to keep the parts from coming in contact with it.

I made up a solution of A&H washing soda, hooked up a HF charger (get the extended warranty on it, it'll eventually stop working and you get one more for free) on 6 amp, and it bubbled away happily... Put the charger inside the garage door and the tote outside to keep it out of the weather... The tub doesn't care about weather.

Stainless is bad news... But I hear the morons who make those under hood hydrogen fuel cells that bubble hydrogen into carb/intake to get better mileage use stainless anodes so they last longer... It works because a car doesn't you gas when the driver is dead.

P.S. I've also used the Wood Bleach stuff to do some parts... works pretty good, better than the molasses method... Vinegar did nothing to a bucket of rusty bolts I put in there but make them smell like a salad.

 

Ask for ph increaser, its 100% sodium carbonate. Also, Arm and Hammer Washing Soda from your local grocery store.

 

I'd never use stainless just because of the issue of the chromium ending up in the water. As my first job in the military was water treatment and I know how hard it is to remove certain contaminants to make water potable. I've had the joy of running a ROPU in a S. American jungle for several months making potable water for myself and 600+ US military using a muddy river for our source water. We couldn't use local wells because of the natural auqafer had a high mercury content that was from volcanic activity in the area. As for my discharge water if I ever drain the tank I'd just set up a drying bed like a sewage plant to evaporate off the water then bundle all the rust and small remaining bits of paint that I may have missed before dunking and cooking the parts. In sewage treatment I heard they use titanium anodes but never learned that part of the process to know if it gives off anything. I guess we will never know what if any is given off by using a titanium anode. I stopped by home depot last night and picked up a new piece of plain 22 gauge steel to keep derusting for a another week. I tried the vinegar before and it was to slow and stinky. The best place I've found for soda ash is PH up at a hardware store. 9lbs. for $10. and for the 330 gallon tanks I only used 2 of those. I'm more into the electrolysis setup. Keep the amperage low and there's next to no bubbles but I'm not gonna smoke next to it to find out.

 

Haha, with as many years as I worked with a Reverse Osmosis Water Purification Unit you'd think I would have remembered the W in ROWPU.

 

Maybe the Titanium was giving off something, after all.

 

Exactly....... acid microscopically eats away at the metal's surface causing any attached slag, rust, etc to fall off.

 

I haven't tried the titanium piece for an anode just because I don't know what if anything it would give off. There's no info on the Internet as to how it would work with titanium.

 

buying steel to use for this is very odd to me.. see.. i just go to jobsites and ask for
rebar cutoffs and leave usualy leave with bucket full of them.. and their all the perfect size
for my electrolysis bin. all for FREE.

you do like FREE dont you?

 

Of course I like free. We got a contractor building a new building at work so I'll check with him as they are doing rebar reinforced foundation in the next day or so. The sheet of 22 gauge steel at home depot was only $8. and works pretty good. Done both halfs of the 45 GMC hood and the inside window panel with it so far over the past week. When I go to do the doors I'll try the rebar even if it gotta buy it to try it. I love this big new tank. I got the tank from a grape farmer in Kerman for $60. delivered and with the tank as big as it is it seems that the line of sight issues with the 5 gallon bucks isn't an issue anymore if I leave it in there for about 12 hours. Rust from the non facing side hosed off just as easy as the facing side. Getting the doors stripped down so I can do them next.

 

How large of a charger would you need to do a full body or frame size tank. also how far from the part being stripped should the rebar be. I want to do a couple of 36 frames & a body or 2. Is there any kind of guess total amps per gallon of water for the best results.

 

I have used this process to clean expensive machined parts that had a coat of rust, we used a piece of carbon fiber for an anode, worked very well, think it was a broken fishing rod. I would never use stainless after reading of the dangers.