My Brother in Law is running a 406 in a (OT) by two years Impala. He runs two four barrels (overkill), cam, a few other mods, and a 400 trans with a 2500 stall converter. Built to be a nice driver, which it is. He has close to 70K miles on it and it still runs like a bear. Never overheats. Last fall he took it to Union Grove for the "Run what ya Brung" and with no tuning changes, or removing spare tire or other weight losses, and street air pressure in the tires he ran about 10 runs that all were in the low to mid 14 second range. Not bad for a heavy old Impala with that set up. He is talking about re powering with something bigger, and you can bet I got dibs on that motor fer shure !! Cheers, and good luck on your choice.
Building a 419" sbc now, callies crank, manley rods, JE pistons. Went with a SHP pro block 50mm cam bore. Hilborn alcohol injection. Should make right at 700hp. I would say go for the cubes! There's really no reason not to.
I run a .040 400 in my o/t car. I've never overheated it. 408 cubes. Trick Flow heads, 1 5/8 headers, Comp Cams H276XR roller cam, 10 to 1 CR, MSD distributor,currently EFI. 330 hp /360 tq at the rear wheels. No need to stroke a 400 for the street. I run an 8" wide tire and I can't get traction, just wheel spin. I wouldn't do the roller cam again, the cost isn't justified for the extra power I can't find traction for. The car weighs 3400 has 3.70 gears and a 200-4R. A friend of mine told me when I was getting into the engine stuff to build a 350 with the edelbrock performer cam, manifold and a 600 holley. Don't worry about the heads. Run headers and 2 1/2" pipes. He said that would put a smile on my face and save me lots of money. I'm giving you that advice now. Use the block you have. Run a cam with around 262 to 276 advertised duration. A HEI distributor with a re-curve kit is good. You could upgrade to the Vortec heads and that's as far as I'd go. It'll run like a scalded dog and not break the bank. The money you save put a good set of gears into the rear end. Gears are a better upgrade for fun driving that a roller cam. I know this because I did this. No bullshit, and I've got nothing to sell. Good Luck! Keep it simple.
i agree..except for the roller cam stuff the newer oil doesnt have the zink in it so its hard on the flat tappet stuff go roller tk
I have had both 352 and 377 cubic inch motors and had no heating issues. Keep in mind that building a stroker motor requires a fair amount of grinding to make sure everything clears. You won't have to run the bigger motors as hard though.
I am aslo looking for a 421(414 with 4.125 bore) or 434 (430 with 4.125 bore)kit from these guys http://www.shafiroff.com/,I am may do the 420 due to the slightly better piston pin location from the shorter stroke 3.875 verses 4.00
Thank you for the post. What car is your engine in and what is the rear suspension set up? 4 link? Do you have an idea of what the tq/hp is at the flywheel? I am in line with your thinking about having it be more practical if you can not transfer the energy to ground. One last question which may never be answered. In general, how much power is loss from a dyno that works with flywheel or at the rear wheels. FOr example a 500 tq/ 500 hp at th flywheel will end up at what at rear wheels? I know the combo of all parts involved matter but say you have 370 gears with a 5 speed and so on.
I hear ya. I was just seeing where I want to draw the line on the build. I know people say there is no replacement for displacement BUT I see a lot of 383 making awesome power over a 400. Next I need to take a look to see if the 383 build is less money than 400 or 421. I am not buying an aftermarket block or buying a crate motor because money is an issue for the block and buying the engine is what floats my boat. Anybody can just buy shit. I like to put more personal touch on things.
Who has used AFR eliminator heads on their 383 or 420/421 engines. I see that they are the best heads. I am looking into to them but I wanted to see who has used them if there are any downfalls or drawbacks.
If you build a 383 and a 400 using the same heads, intake, carb, and cam, the 400 will still beat it. A 383 (to me) is a strange combination. It does it's job, but it's not a torque-monster and it's not a revver. It's kind of a generic all-purpose combination that doesn't specialize in anything. A 400 is a perfect example of an ugly duckling that turned into a swan. When they came out, nobody wanted them, the hotrodders shunned them, the "experts" said they would overheat, and they were forgotten. Then, people got wise and tried them. They kick ass, plain and simple. I am very familiar with AFR heads on 400s, and they are a great choice. As long as you stay with the 180, 195, or 210, you won't have to buy offset rockers, like on the 227. Depending on your combination, the 195 Eliminator is possibly the best all-around SBC performance head on the market. Example: A good friend of mine built a 400 SBC with 195 Eliminators and installed it into his 4400 lb fully-loaded 1979 Silverado short bed fleetside and ran as fast as 10.63 with slicks and nitrous. It had 11.0-1 compression, a good Comp Cams solid roller (around 245 @ .050, .620 lift, 110 lobe center), 195 Eliminators (competition ported by AFR), A Weiand Team-G intake, a Holley 950hp, th400, and a 12-bolt with 3.42s. It ran 2 nitrous systems, a 100 shot out of the hole, and a 250 shot in second gear. The truck was a heavyweight with the aerodynamics of a brick. The only suspension mods were shocks, Cal-tracs, and a 12" wide slick. Build a 400 with AFRs. Call Tony Mamo at AFR and he'll get you hooked up.
A 377 would be a de-stroker motor and you shouldn't have to grind a thing to make it work. I am not sure about a 352, a 350 punched .030 comes out to 355. You stroked a small bore motor to come up with 325? I'm just asking here. The only real problem building a 377 from a 400 block is that you have to come up with thick bearings for the mains or use bearing spacers. they used to make thicker bearings which is the way to go. I don't know of anyone still markets the thick bearing. The problem with the spaced main bearings is that they have a tendency to develop hot spots which is not good for bearing life. If you don't want a rever than a 377 is not your ideal motor. They do rev well, like in rev until it comes apart, rev well, if they are properly assembled.
pnb, I like the way you think. The 377 is my favorite sbc. I'm running one with Brodix heads and an old Holley 300-36 w/ a 3310 Holley carb in a 2800lb car. It keeps up with traffic real well. Next I want to try running my Smokey Ram intake on it. It's also a roller motor.
Mine would be running my 2x4 offy and a pair of one off trick flow twisted wedge heads. I have got a car that can be 2800 lbs. The 377 is like a big 302. Big bore short stroke, a hell bent for big end, a fella never wants any more than that. leave at 1500 and never let it drop below 6200 all the way though the lights.
Flat n Low, thanks a ton. Good info. Quick question. I was looking into 195 or 210 afr heads. Which ones are better and why. Besides the obvious reasons. 210 flow more/better but the 195 from what I understand are the best ones(of course depends on the application). I see a lot 383 with 195s on them and some 400 with 195s and 210s on them and I see afr has a engine dyno'd that is a 400 with 210s that looks great but what is the difference if the 400 had 195s on them. Is it just simple the powerband happens at an earlier RPM? Is the 195 torquier? Insights? All in all I know it will not make much of a difference. Either head will be an excellent choice. Then it leads to my next question. Vortec heads. Who has used them on a 400. Seeing that the AFR and aluminum heads may be out of the price range what about Vortec heads that are ported and so on. I know the intake must match. But let me know who has gone this route. Thank you guys.
If you like to read there is a pretty good book, " High performance Small Block Chevy cylinder heads" by Graham Hansen that goes over a lot of the questions you have. The publishing date is 2007, so its a little dated.
I currently run a new crate GM 383 vortec "hi torque" motor in a '56 Ford F-100 and a pre-86 GM custom built 383 Edelbrock aluminium head engine in our ' 27 T. Each motor was built for a specific purpose. The Truck motor because it is a heavy vehicle built for towing. The motor in the '27 T is a higher horsepower & reving motor for a light hot rod. In the past i have owned two 406 custom built motors. One was in a street '36 Ford flatback, very reliable that had monster torque. The other was a high reving 406 in a 3000 lb 1939 Willys street/strip car that ran 11 flat @ 128 mph unaspirated on the foot brake! My opinion if you have the money and want high horsepower go with the 406. If you want a modest budget street motor go with the 383 cu. in. Forget the 421 , it's not worth the extra money & effort!
So many variables...For a street car and bang for the buck,build a stock crank/flattop pistons/o-decked/Chad Speier headed,hydraulic roller cammed,airgap intake,hei dist. 406.It will fry the tires be dependable low maint and cheap! jmho
Thank you. In your Vortec "hi torque" engine are just the heads vortec? Also, Wanted to know who has Vortec heads on their engine and if people think its worth all the mods that happen with the vortec heads(intake, valve covers, pushrod binding, etc) to save money instead of just getting some afr heads. Who has some builds of 400s with Vortec heads. Any help would be great thank you.
Hi , my brother is running a 383 in an 100e ford pop, tubbed and with 150 shot of gas runs 10.02 1/4's. dynoed about 481hp with out gas. runs well on the street but this is in a light car. will find out more from him tomorrow if you like. cheers vin
Here are the specs on the crate 383 truck motor> The HT383E offers you the same brute strength of our HT383: forged steel crank, 4-bolt main cast iron block, and a camshaft designed for towing and hard work. With 383 cubic inches, you also get a broad torque band that peaks at 435 lb,-ft, at 4000 rpm with 340 horsepower at 4500 rpm. Some "Vortec" details>> The Vortec 5700 L31 is a V8 truck engine. Displacement is 5.7 L. It is the last production Generation I small-block from Chevrolet. The cylinder heads feature combustion chambers and intake ports very similar to those of the LT1 V8, but without the reverse-flow cooling. As such, the L31 head is compatible with all older small-blocks, and is a very popular upgrade. It offers the performance of more expensive heads, at a much lower cost. It does, however, require a specific intake manifold (a Vortec head has 8 bolts attaching the intake manifold as opposed to the traditional twelve bolts per head).
i have had 3 the stock 400, 406, and 421 and a couple of each me personally would now do a 396sbc! with scat crank,h-beams,forged pistons. if you dont have that much budget go 406 w/5.7 rod & forged sluggs. my 421sbc in my mustang fox body made 976ft lbs torque on the chassis dyno to the tires on a 150hp shot of spray! that was one bad mofo! it had pro top line 230/64cc stock non ported heads, forged flat tops, 6" h-beam rods, cam motion .698-.698/114* solid roller custom nitrous grind cam, 1.6 comp pro magnum rockers, power plus single plane intake, cometic head gaskets, comp push rods, 1050 holley dominator carb...you get the picture high dollar race motor but still street drove it and raced it with no overheating issues! the 406 is very affordable and packs quite the punch for the money! stay around 200cc unless you are planning on nitrous or other power adders? between a 377 and 350 little to no diff we tested in a 10.5" tire nova with a top end switched between the two with hardley no difference stock junk yard 350 w/reused head gaskets! compared to a race prepped 377 with same top end the 350 was down on E.T. by like a tenth "who da thought it" this happened after the 377 lost a piston so in order to make the next race we got a junk yard 350 and swapped it all & went racing!now the nova has a 18* 434sbc that combo makes around 700hp @ the crank! "there's no replacement for displacement"
I actually like to read and I just got done reading a SBC booK by Vizard. Which goes into detail about heads. It talks briefly about runner size. It looks like mostly the RPMs are affected but it doesnt tell me much more. I want to know what are the advantages are if I were to get a 210 cc head that flows better at .50 lift than a 195 cc head. I know the RPM range shifts a little bit but I am curious if torque is affected.
What type of trick flow heads are you running? I would be looking at doing something similar to what you have done. 400/406 Roller motor but with maybe afr or vortec heads. It depends on my budget in regards to which heads to run. 750 carb 370 gears. Cam would be close to your 276XE roller cam. What is your rear suspension in your car? Posi?
If cubic inches matter, Klein engines out of Phoenix years ago had a crank kit that allowed 440 cubes from a 400 block.We ran against it in a dirt stock car in southern Ca. back in the late 80's early 90's. Even racing in the desert, it didn't overheat.But, I saw it torn down to freshen at the engine shop, and, there wasn't much meat left for the oil pan rails.
I've read most Of Vizard's books that I can get my hands on...his budget books deal with mostly factory stuff, but not a lot on aftermarket heads. I've been doing a little digging along the same lines you are going on and I think the biggest question you have to answer for yourself is if this is a true daily driver that you are just going to gouge now and then or if its a race car that you're going to tame down to cruise a little in. I'm no pro, but bigger heads flow more, at higher lifts, for more RPM, but lose velocity and are soggy on the bottom with a low lift/short duration street cam. Good Luck
Your timing is excellent. My family knows a lot of about hotrodding but it is not the easiest to talk to them about things like this...It tough to explain Anyhow. Most likely I will be looking into getting vortec heads with a roller cam and using it as a daily driver. The vortec heads seem to be the best bang for your buck for heads and I can put the money into a manual tranny or something else that will help the overall package. The only thing about the afr heads is that they may behave better on pump gas as well as being the best flowing head but they may be overkill. Thank you
I should explain a little more about my family. They know a lot more than I do but get frustrated when I ask questions. Thats all. Has anyone had any problems with vortec headed engines running on low octane fuel???
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