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Steiring help please?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by my 57 international, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. my 57 international
    Joined: Mar 11, 2011
    Posts: 32

    my 57 international
    Member
    from 45011

    I have a 1958 studebaker and the onlything stopping me from driving is the steiring. When parked the bottom of the front tires stick in and the top stick out? And when driving and I hit a bump both tires turn left or right real fast and hard. What is causeing this?
     
  2. Stu D Baker
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,815

    Stu D Baker
    Member
    from Illinois

    Your front suspension is worn out. Possibly upper and lower control bushing, ball joints, tie rod ends, or all of the above. Stu
     
  3. Willy301
    Joined: Nov 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,426

    Willy301
    Member

    Is it a ball joint front end? with your caster in that position, I think you need to check all parts for wear, replace the worn items and get it aligned. You may still have a bump steer situation after that, but your going to have to solve the wear issues first to see what, if any, other problems exist...
     
  4. my 57 international
    Joined: Mar 11, 2011
    Posts: 32

    my 57 international
    Member
    from 45011

    Everything is dryrotted. I will take pictures so you can see. And car needs a new home. check cl***ifieds.
     
  5. tudorkeith
    Joined: May 10, 2009
    Posts: 453

    tudorkeith
    Member

    If it's dry rotted, isn't that a pretty obvious sign of worn out front end components? not just trying to drum up attention for a car you're selling are ya?
     
  6. What's steiring?
     
  7. my 57 international
    Joined: Mar 11, 2011
    Posts: 32

    my 57 international
    Member
    from 45011

    No not trying to drum up att. And yes I cannot spell alot of words. And I cant read big words. Do you make fun of people in wheel chairs too? And I am trying to fix this car so I can drive it. I am working on putting the chrome on and filling the steering box with gear oil. And yes all the bushing's are dryrotted but no need to replace everything right now just need to replace what's messing up the steering. It would cost around 500 a side to replace all the steering parts. This is not my first project but is my first with this steering trouble. Thank you for your help.
     
  8. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 36,050

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    58 Studebaker Commander, from what you are saying I'd say that the front suspension and steering are pretty well worn out and will need replacing before it's safe to drive. I think I may have done an alignment on one of those in my life and that would have been over 35 years ago at the latest so I don't remember how they are setup and what to look at.

    By the way Firefox browser and some of the others have spell check built in and can help with a guy's ability to get his point across a bit better. See a little red line under the word, right click on the word and find the correct spelling and no one else even knows that you did it ;)
     
  9. jcmarz
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 4,631

    jcmarz
    Member
    from Chino, Ca

    Who knows, maybe it's a trick question.
     
  10. deanopopino
    Joined: Aug 20, 2007
    Posts: 237

    deanopopino
    Member
    from Troy, MO

    I'm confused ... or maybe my reading comprehension is off today. The steering (and suspension, probably) are worn out. You want to fix it up to drive but only want to do the minimum amount of work required AND it's listed in the cl***ifieds but you're not trying to sell it.

    Now, if I were fixing it up to drive I'd want it fixed right, not half-***ed, kinda-sorta fixed. Frankly, if I were selling it I'd either leave it alone and sell it as-is where-is OR I'd fix it right. Kinda-sorta fixed could cause problems down the road.

    'Course, I could be all messed up and you're actually talking about glazed donuts and milk ...
     
  11. S_Mazza
    Joined: Apr 27, 2011
    Posts: 363

    S_Mazza
    Member

    Some of the responses are wise-*** ... but I think that you're asking for a more specific answer than you could possibly get from people that haven't seen the car. Each suspension part affects the others. You will probably need to either replace all the worn items or do them one at a time until the behavior is acceptable to you.
     
  12. 40StudeDude
    Joined: Sep 19, 2002
    Posts: 9,562

    40StudeDude
    Member

    Whew...!!!

    I read all of this...and I still cannot add anything to this...

    R-
     
  13. my 57 international
    Joined: Mar 11, 2011
    Posts: 32

    my 57 international
    Member
    from 45011

    Thank's everyone. I am trying to sell one car. But not pressed on selling this one. And I am working on it because I like to work on them it's fun for me like a hobby. But sometimes I come acrooss a promblem that I cant figure out where to start fixing. Steve,
     
  14. my 57 international
    Joined: Mar 11, 2011
    Posts: 32

    my 57 international
    Member
    from 45011

  15. my 57 international
    Joined: Mar 11, 2011
    Posts: 32

    my 57 international
    Member
    from 45011

    Look at the lean on the tire. The same way on the ground.



    steering 014.JPG

    steering 015.JPG

    steering 016.JPG

    steering 017.JPG

    steering 018.JPG
     
  16. 32Auburn
    Joined: Nov 23, 2008
    Posts: 310

    32Auburn
    Member
    from Oregon

    don't drive it again til you fix it, one thing to risk your life, another to risk other peoples, get a book, google it, but learn to diagnose your problem
     
  17. my 57 international
    Joined: Mar 11, 2011
    Posts: 32

    my 57 international
    Member
    from 45011

    Im not driving it. I am driving my 52 plymouth.
     
  18. A picture is worth a thousand words.
    Dry rot is right! Wow. Even the shock bushing is pushed out in one of the shots.
    I would not do anything more than yard drive it like that. Just start picking away at rebuilding it as you can afford it. Don't have to rebuild the whole front end at once. Failing that, sell it as is. You have some good pictures here and a lot of buyers would appreciate you honesty.
     
  19. my 57 international
    Joined: Mar 11, 2011
    Posts: 32

    my 57 international
    Member
    from 45011


    Thank you. I have a guy wanting the motor for his rare 2 door ranch wagon.
     
  20. S_Mazza
    Joined: Apr 27, 2011
    Posts: 363

    S_Mazza
    Member

    Good pics. I am not 100% familiar with the suspension design on this car, but I think I would start with pic #1. It looks like that's the lower control arm bushing in picture 1? That could allow a lot of play when hitting bumps. I would replace those first.

    If it's dual wishbone suspension, I would check the upper arm bushings too.

    The ball joints should be easy enough to check by jacking up car at the lower control arm and trying to shake the wheel in and out. (That lets the suspension be in its natural position during the test. Jackstands under the frame as a backup for safety, of course.)

    The missing shock bushing must make for a rather noisy and harsh ride, but I don't think that would affect alignment much.
     
  21. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 5,008

    Mart
    Member

    While not pretty, the cracking shown on the bushes probably isn't your problem. The part of the bush that is between the arm and the shaft is probably ok.

    You need to get in there and start really looking for things that are out of shape or mis aligned.

    The shock bush has pulled out completely. This will not affect alignment, but will affect how it drives.

    Jack the car up under the bottom arms and pull and push the wheels around looking for play in all the bushes and joints.

    Make sure the car is secure, you don't want it to fall and crush you, and you will be doing some heaving.

    One of the track rods look bent, this will have affected the alignment, unless compensated for. It should be carefully straightened (cold) or replaced.

    There's no need to spend $500 a side, just isolate the real offenders and fix them.

    I have a section in my 63 Motor's Manual that covers the steering, if you want I could scan it and send it to your email address.

    let me know.

    Mart.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2012
  22. my 57 international
    Joined: Mar 11, 2011
    Posts: 32

    my 57 international
    Member
    from 45011

  23. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 5,008

    Mart
    Member

    Just sent the scans - hope they are useful to you.

    Mart.
     
  24. my 57 international
    Joined: Mar 11, 2011
    Posts: 32

    my 57 international
    Member
    from 45011

  25. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 60,039

    squirrel
    Member

    It looks like a tie rod is bent. That will affect the alignment, causing toe out, not good.

    It also looks like it has negative camber, that's when the top of the wheel leans in. But it's hard to say for sure, because it appears lots of parts are missing off the car, which makes the car weigh less, so it sits up higher. The natural result of sitting higher is that you get negative camber, because of how an unequal length A arm suspension works.

    You really need to get someone who knows about this stuff to help you look over the suspension, and check for worn parts. It's pretty hard to explain it all over the internet. Or you could just spend some time looking at it yourself, the first thing is to jack up one side by the lower control arm, near the outer end, just enough to take thew eight off the tire. Then grab the top and bottom of the tire and try to move it in and out, see where it is loose. Also grab the sides of the tire and do the same, and look for slop. When it's on the wheels on the ground, have someone move the steering wheel back and forth so the tires just start to steer, while you look at all the steering joints to see if there's any movement indicating a loose part.
     
  26. my 57 international
    Joined: Mar 11, 2011
    Posts: 32

    my 57 international
    Member
    from 45011

    I will load a picture for you with the car on the groung.
     
  27. my 57 international
    Joined: Mar 11, 2011
    Posts: 32

    my 57 international
    Member
    from 45011

    Pictures are a little dark but look at the wheels.



    pontiac and studebaker 002.JPG

    pontiac and studebaker 003.JPG

    pontiac and studebaker 004.JPG

    pontiac and studebaker 005.JPG

    pontiac and studebaker 006.JPG

    pontiac and studebaker 007.JPG

    pontiac and studebaker 008.JPG
     
  28. my 57 international
    Joined: Mar 11, 2011
    Posts: 32

    my 57 international
    Member
    from 45011

    Seehow the tops are sticking out and the car is ridding on the side of the tires. And I can hear a popping sound just turning the car around.
     
  29. S_Mazza
    Joined: Apr 27, 2011
    Posts: 363

    S_Mazza
    Member

    With the tires out at the tops, you have positive camber, where you want slightly negative camber.

    So that means, either it's really badly aligned, or the control arm bushings are so badly worn that it CAN'T be aligned. So I would check the control arm bushings first. And also the wheel bearings.
     
  30. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,921

    Fenders
    Member

    Actually is sounds like death wobble, but yah, he should get the worn parts replaced and an alignment.
     

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