Fellas, I have a '50 Ford Tudor. While the engine is out (8BA) I want to swap in an overdrive transmission. I have a few leads on them, but need to know more. 1. How is the overdrive activated? Is it an electronic or mechanical switch on the dash? I understand its Solenoid activated, but how? 2. When in 3rd, do I push the clutch in to put it in OD? 3. Will I need to shorten the drive shaft? 4. What's the wiring harness for? 5. Any other changes from the original 3 speed? I'll have it rebuilt before it goes in?
#1 electronically with a manual lockout #2 no, just leave up on the gas for a sec. #3 no #4 the overdrive is operated by a govener and solenoid, solenoid takes enough current it's switched with a relay #5 only the wireing and lockout cable #6 I love mine and have had many
are the OD units specific to the cases they are attached to? is it possible to hook one up to say a top loader is more or less where im going with this.
to add to the above, the govener closes a contact around 23 mph that enables the solenoid to engage the overdrive in any gear except reverse. A throttle activated kickdown switch disengages the overdrive, much like a passing gear. "are the OD units specific to the cases they are attached to? is it possible to hook one up to say a top loader is more or less where im going with this." they are part of the tranny in the tranny case.
try a long search here on this subject - lots of info posted. had OD in '53 Merc, the only way to go with a 3 speed.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258186&highlight=overdrive http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=432370&highlight=overdrive When you put overdrive in a regular 3 speed non overdrive car, the added benefit is a little higher rear end ratio which is much easier on flathead V8's with todays highway speeds. Old Fords usually came with 4.11 gears with overdrive and 3.70 without overdrive. Repro wiring harnesses are cheap and easy to install. Check with an old Ford restoration supply company. The basic transmission is the same so your shifter linkage is the same, it hooks right up! In one of the thread links above, I posted a picture of some of the components, and the other thread has my "how to" drive a 3 speed overdrive video. They are a blast to drive--Have Fun!!
The 49 maybe 50 Mercs had a large bell version of the 49-53 Ford overdrive trans that will fit the early flathead block or 8Ba with the adapter from a Merc or truck. They are open drive.
Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it. I did search, but there were so.many treads regarding Ford vs. Merc, what fits and what doesn't, I was confused as hell. Thought I would start a new thread specific to ny needs... Selfish, huh?
Be sure and use a 49-51 overdrive. After '51 the boss for the floorboard mounted clutch pedal pivot is not on the sideplate. Don't ask how I know.
This is good to know. My 49 2door has stock OD and I'm sure it will need work. Working on the brakes now and next will be to get the engine running again... CAN'T WAIT!!
Go over to a site called shoeboxford.com and check it out. Call and talk to Chris or Ray if you have questions. All they do is sell parts for '49-51 Fords along with giving lots of good free advice. They are also the best source for those little missing pieces that so often aren't available elsewhere. They have acres of cars for parts in addition to a lot of NOS and reproduction parts.
I've spent quite a bit of time on shoeboxford.com lately. Thanks for the link and recommendation though. Speed limit out here is 75 MPH, some stretches are 80. I'm looking forward to seeing how the taller rear gears work. Might be too tall, may not have enough torque to maintain speed or end up overheating at speed. At least rear gears are easier to change than the trans while the engine is already out.
careful in regards to swapping to tall gears and OD. I like 3.70-4.10 with the OD you'll cruise those speeds
I'm pretty sure mine has 3.70:1 rear gears. I think 3.90 might be better suited to run 80 MPH, buy I'll have to wait and see.
Don't overthink the taller ratio. Remember your car was OK with 3.70 and the 3 speed, and highway speeds in 1950 were 55mph or less. The flathead V8 is not a 6500rpm small block Chevy, and much more expensive to rebuild. Your overdrive trans only puts you at .85 to 1 in overdrive as opposed to 1 to 1 with the 3 speed. You will still be overworking a stock flathead at 80mph for long stretches, even with overdrive. Actually for todays highway cruising I would reccomend 3.55 with overdrive. Overworking a stock flathead can lead to a SBC transplant. I run 3.55 gears in my model A with a stock 1951 flathead and overdrive and 15 inch tires. Of course the model A weighs half as much as your 1950 sedan, so from a dead stop it might be a little easier to to start out in 1st gear, but not a huge difference. The overdrive basically gives you 4 speeds forward, so if you think you are lugging the engine, just drop a gear like you would with any other 4 speed. Second gear overdrive and third gear underdrive are almost the same ratio, so there is no advantage to use 2nd overdrive to 3rd underdrive as a shift point. The overdrive has a cable (like a choke cable) that hooks to a lever on the left side of the trans and is used to disengage the overdrive. It is best to only disengage the OD when stopped (pull the cable out). You can push the cable in while moving and engage the OD, and if you are at the OD "cut in" speed just let off the gas and it will shift into OD. With the OD disengaged (by the cable pulled out) it works like a standard 3 speed, and you can use engine/compression braking to help slow down. With the cable pushed in (OD engaged) the car will freewheel (no compression braking) under 30 mph while not in overdrive. Driving in traffic in city at 45mph or less it might be best to have the cable out and use compression braking for stoplight to stoplight traffic. If you happen to merge onto the freeway from city traffic, you can just push the cable in, let up on the gas and it will shift into OD. The OD is automatically locked out (internally) when you shift into reverse, which is a safeguard to protect the OD planetary gears in the transmission. So shift to reverse, or pull the OD cable out when you park the car and set the parking brake. overspray
You are on the right track, I have several o/d trannys for sale. We have used them in trucks and roadsters. If you are ready to buy one call Tom at 208-524-3995. Note Van Pelt Ent. sells new solenoids that are 12v or new 6v. There are several ways to wire this trans that are easier than the original ford set-up.
DAddio211, almost forgot!! My mom lives in SLC UT. area. will deliver to Thanksgiving point swap meet, [May 18th, 19th] Lehi, Ut. these trannys are heavy but well worth the effort. Your 50 used a r11 o/d unit, I do have one for sale.
Overspray, your video answered most of my questions! <embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://img.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v104/overspray/100_0303.flv"> Do you leave your overdrive engaged all the time? King43, thanks for the offer but I have one lined up. If it doesn't work out I'll get in touch with you.
I leave mine engaged almost all the time. If you look at my steering column mount at the dash, I have my overdrive lockout cable mounted on the right side. Since my car is pretty light, I seldom need compression braking below 30mph. I live several miles out of town and traffic speeds are 35 to 55 to get to town, so I use overdrive all the time. In town I'm used to the free wheeling below 30mph so it's not akward for me to use the brakes a little more. I run drum brakes on all corners, non power. They stop a Model A coupe fine. If I do a lot of slow in town driving or on the fairgrounds at Back to the 50's car show in ST Paul, I will occationally lock out the OD. You will have to see how you feel driving the '50 locked in or locked out. I have had about a dozen overdrive cars in my life and I love driving them.
Do you have all the OD parts? I have all the extras sitting in a box. I think solenoid, governor, cable and handle nice and shiny, some other wires.
Hi, I was searching the web for info on these boxes as a friend of mine has a 53 Victoria with overdrive but it doesen't work, the cable seems seized for a start. One question i have is, if they are triggered by an electrical solonoid how come you operate them with a cable and not a switch? Thanks
My understanding is that the handle/cable is a mechanical link to the electric solenoid mounted on the trans. Doesn't make much sense to me either, but after I get my hands on one I'm sure it will. Can someone with knowledge elaborate here?
Thanks Daddio, I guess i need to get underneath and see if i can operate the other end of the cable and see if the solonid clicks as a starting point...
The cable (and the lever on the trans the cable operates) does not activate the overdrive, rather it is used to mechanically (not electrically) prevent the overdrive from engaging. You can look at the cable as "allow" or "not allow" overdrive. The electric solenoid (which is controlled by the governor switch) activates the overdrive. The governor switch "governs" when the overdrive engages and disengages based on the speed of the vehicle. The kickdown switch does two things at once. It kills power to the solenoid and kills power to the ignition coil. This disengages the overdrive and allows slack in the drivetrain so the OD is able to downshift. The relay is only there to segregate the high current feed to the solenoid from the rest of the low current system. The governor trips the relay which feeds the solenoid.
I was on shoeboxford.com last night and found these handle/cables available for $50. Seems reasonable, and the picture alone may help you. http://www.shoeboxford.com/public/634.cfm Tommy, thanks as always. You are a WEALTH of knowledge and assistance!!! This, with the driving video posted earlier helps me understand this much better! Thank you!
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