Ignition issues with 327 w/3 deuces

My 32 roadster has a 327 with the stock distributor as was running a pertronix ignition, after I have burned up the 3rd one, I have decided to go back to points, the car ran great on the pertronix, but runs like *** with points. I think the reason the pertronix have failed is because I'm running a generator. The dwell is set to 30 and my total advance is 34. it runs fine on the center carb, but when the other 2 are opened it falls on its face and backfires out the exhaust. the only thing I have changed was the ignition module to points, any ideas???

 

When you switched to points are you running a ballast resistor?...I ***ume you swapped in a condenser too (sorry for that question)..but had to know...any more info?

 

Yes, new blue streak points and condenser and ballast resistor and the dist. is running a vacuum advance.

 

You didn't mention what your initial riming is and at what rpm it's 'all in' at?

Perhaps too much advance for lower rpm or maybe your just way too rich when the carbs kick in.

"backfires out the exhaust" makes me think it's more of a timing issue.

.

 

Ive been running Pertronics on 3x2 for years with absolutely no problems. You may want to give Pertronics a call to see what they say. If it turns out to be the generator, you may consider one of the "alternator that looks like generator" units.....

http://www.gener-nator.com/

or

http://www.powermastermotorsports.com/powergen.htm

 

Its all in by 3500 and the initial is 12deg, it was not too rich with the pertronix, would the points be that much of a weaker spark to need to lean it out now?

 

I loved the pertronix, but after 3 dead ones and no help from the company, I'm not going back!

 

What's your spark plug gap, & what plug wires?

 

I have 3x2 on mine-used pertronix conversion kit w/ their coil. No problems on kick in, ran o.k. Went to MSD distb.-ran better.
sounds like the backfire is timing. My opinion is that you'd be better off going back to soild state stuff, the old points just isn't the ticket anymore.
P.S.--after burning up three Pertronix, you really ought to rethink the wiring.
cooger

 

I thought of a few things that could cause some of your ignition problems. When using an old points type dist, that little ground wire going from one vac advance screw to the breaker plate fails because of fatigue of the wire and the insulation which gets rock hard and causes the wire to fail. The plate will still ground but when it turns slightly with the vac advance, that can causes intermittent poor grounding. The repair there would be a new ground wire. Also be sure that the negative post on your coil goes to the dist. Also use a resister on the positive side of the coil. That will bring the running voltage down to about 9 volts. Another thing I have run into has been a poorly grounded condencer either from being loose in the clamp or with a "uniset" The condencer not being grounded to the points ***embly. Points distributors get a bad name from these type of things, but I still like to use them. I hope this may help. CJS

 

The Ptronix is a great set up. An HEI with a small cap is also a great set up and would probably solve alot of the issues. But your best bet is to cut a battery out of the loop and put a Magneto in there. I have one on my 327 with 2x4's and also dealt with the points problem at first. I got frustrated and put an old Mag I had in there. Viola no more problems and plenty of spark always. But you might also try a little more advance and progressive linkage which kicks in a little later. The big stumble often is an overload of air which can't burn at a lower RPM with any amount of spark. 3x2's are tricky in the timing for kicking all in. I had them on my Y-block and I went through a similar time you are having. IT worked out though and it was both carbs and ignition. I'm hoping Squirell chimes in.


Tim

 

Good info, and when you said "breaker plate", that reminds me of needing to check to see if the plate bushing is worn out, flopping around, etc

 

Did the coil you were using have the correct internal resistance and were the coil and Pertronix fed the correct voltages? If not that'll make them unhappy and have short lives too.

I've had great luck with the Pertronix units but if you're really soured on them I've also have excellent luck with the Mallory Unilite conversions as well.....again, using the correct coil and ballast resistor (when required).

 

The coil was a pertronix coil, and there was no resistor run with the pertronix as per the instructions, the first one that failed I thought was due to a solid core coil wire, but that has been changed and now all the wires are carbon cored, plug gap I think is .035, not real concerned why they failed just want to be able to drive the thing without worry of needing to do a full tune up on the side of the road anymore!

I may look into a mag, the car was built in 64 and I am trying to keep it mostly all from that era, thats why I liked the stock dist. with the unit inside, I am running 2 other pertronix units for over 10 years in other cars with no issues, but this one just likes to burn them up!

 

I just found a in the box older vertex for 200 bucks, so I'm going to pick it up and give it a try.

 

That's the way to go. If it's dead send it to Cirillo and he can re-charge it for you.


Congrats,

Tim

 

If your running a generator, you also have a regulator. Have you checked the output from the regulator? If I remember correctly, the output is adjustable and the points can burn/arc and maybe have too high an output???

 

Be warned that the Magneto probably has the advance locked out.

 

It is a 6deg advance mag

The generator is freshly rebuilt, and the regulator is new.

 

Send me a PM. I would like you to send the failed Ignitor to me so we can try and diagnose what happened. Generators can send a lot of fluctuating voltage and occasional spikes which Might be the problem. Also grounds can cause failures. If you send it to me I will take it to the lab and see what we can find out for you. Thanks, Don / Pertronix

 

Wow! I can't buy into "No Help" from Pertronix. They have stepped up for me every time asked. I had a problem years ago that by rights they could have told me to go pound sand. I shipped them my Dist on there dime and was repaired in there shop and sent back no charge. I run them in everything and once you fully understand what to do they seem to be fail safe. My Merc is small block Chevy tri power, Old mallory dist with pertronix and 10 years running.

 

Guess I should have read all the posts prior to fireing mine off. Glad you caught this Don. I'm sure you can sort this out for him.
The Wizzard

 

It sounds like there's too much resistance on the secondary side. So much that it failed the modules & now with the points there's not enough dwell to keep up with it.

I think the problem is still there, but the magneto may mask it

 

I agree with most of the posts . The coil is more than likely the culprit as it still doesnt run right with the points.
I would let Don have the module and see if he can help you.....

 

I wondered when you were going to chime in. I was also thinking wrong coil resistance, or improper voltage to coil.

 

It had the .6 ohm coil supplied by pertronix, I contacted Don, and will be sending him the module to see if he can figure out something.

 

generators, and metal core plug wires don't get along well with electronic ignitions... I tried the metal core wires with a Mallory electronic on my Flatmotor,...Fired up, idled kind of ok, but any throttle opening broke it up bad. Went to the modern plug wires, all is well. The suggestion to use a "looks like" gen, with an alt inside if it is a great way to go.

keep us posted.......

4TTRUK

 

Pertronix.....I still have and am still using the same one in my 72 F100, that I bought in 1985, 100% reliable. (No, I do NOT have stock in Pertronix.........)

4TTRUK

 

A COUPLE ISSUES HERE THAT I DEAL WITH EVERY DAY.

1= If you are eating ignition parts ( especially low voltage ones in the primary) theres only one issue to deal with ( other than just cheap parts) and that is HEAT !!!!!
Heat comes from using too low of a primary resistance somewhere in the system.
Low resistance = high current draw and again high current causes heat burning out and over working the system. ( primary).

In this example of multiple modules etc and a .6 ohm coil . The .6 ohm coil is to be used ONLY with the later ignitor II module.
All Ignitors use a minimum 1.5 ohm coil ..

Now do the math 13 volts charging voltage divided by primary resitance is 21.66 amps !!!!!!!! Way over whats needed for this car. Now some of you will say that the module has current limiting etc , thats true but we still must handle the current somehow !!!! And the module is the part that handles this current!!!i
Now look at 1.5 ohm coil and 13 volts. Current would be 8.6 amps or less than half the current energy of the .6 ohm coil...

We have had great performance from the pertronixs folks , HOWEVER we use a 1.5 ohm coil with all our Pertronixs products and have had terrible experience with the .6 ohm coil..

Its gotten to the point that we suggest using our 1.5 ohm coil with all our pertronixs conversions and have had very little come back with this combo...

So i hope that the orginal poster has a Ignitor II and certaintly not a Ignitor I unit?????

 

Yes it was an ignitor II