Is there any advantage to using a 1947 59ab over a1951 8ba in a AV8 build on an A ch***is, overall lenth , mechanical fan options, parts availability, reliability etc, thanks.
In my opinion, absolutely none whatsoever, except an 8BA block is far more suscepitical to cracking than the easrlier casting. Tooratly
Im gonna run a 53 Merc flatty in my Model A. Your going to have to make new mounts and that sort of thing but its not to bad. They actually messure only little longer than the original four banger so they fit no problem......What kind of trans are you gonna run?.......As for parts availability get a speedway catalog. They have every thing your going to need at a pretty good price
if memory serves the only real big difference is the integrated bellhousing on the 59 limiting your ****** options as opposed to the 8ba which has none therefore giving you more options......
I already have a 59ab rebuilder but have access to a 8ba runner, have a 39 trans/rear end & a 32 k member or 35 X member to use for a trans hanger, still collecting parts, just wanted to find out which was the better motor to run as I am not committed to either yet.
I like the 8BA/8CM for this reason and also for the more convenient placement of the distributor. I'm thinking of putting an 8CM with a C4 trans and 8 inch rear end into a '53 Chevy pickup. Sick huh. pigpen I have all of the parts except the rear end housing, and the sick, depraved mind to carry out the dastardly deed! A pair of Smithy's and that old inliner truck will sound like no other you've ever heard!
The early distributors will fit later engines and later distributors will fit early engines. The only difference is the snout on the camshaft. An adaptor can be used to fit the late distributor (and front cover) on an early engine, but the camshaft would need to be changed on a later engine if you want to use the early style distributor. If your going to use a late style distributor on an engine with early heads; (center water outlets) you would need to make some kind of clamp (many drill the post of the cover and use set screws) to keep the distributor from moving.
Please share your knowledge. I've heard this before but haven't seen any substantiation of what you say. Maybe we've been incredibly lucky. Please enlighten us. Mike
The coolant flow is substantially improved in the "late" blocks. Also, I find the casting quality to be better than the early blocks. This is most notable in Candaian castings, although I've worked on domestic 8BA blocks that were as perfect as could be. Please weigh what I say against comments from the true Ford flathead experts. I don't want to mislead you, just share my limited experience. Mike
Hey Guys, I wonder if the 8BA's are really more prone to cracking or whether due to thier popularity over the earlier engines, more are just hunted for and found cracked? Danny
Ha, "your limited experience!" If I had YOUR experience Mike, there would be VERY few things I didn't know about flatheads!! I'm not so sure the Canadian castings were better, they just didn't get "beat up" as bad! BTW - Howya keepin'?
The opposite would make sense to me. Grandpa says that people want 59Ab and up style engine was mainly for their power, etc. As you all know. However, to add to this notion, he brings up a good point about all the rationing during the war and after the depression. People didn't have oil to keep them filled, good antifreeze, not rings and bearings for worn out engines.....etc When guys like him returned form the War, he said most of the engines were just simply worn out (cheaper to buy at the junk yard than rebuild for guys like him).......kind of interesting.......something not really thought of. I love to hear things from guys that lived WHEN this all took place....a much different perspective..... I'm not sure how this fits with the 49-up motor vs the older styles......but it made me think of what he said.
I myself like the "later" motor more just cause they had a little more power and that they are simply "newer". And without the integrated bellhousing thing-a-majeg you have more options as far as transmissions go. Im running a T-5 trans out of a 92 Chevy S-10. .....But sense you already have a 39 trans/rear end you dont have to worry about what kind of trans you want to run.
Ford flathead engines went through a LOT of changes during the years they were manufactured. The "8BA" engine was introduced in 1949 and had 21 improvements. The "CM" series were the Mercury engines which had the 4" stroke crank. (the Ford engines continued using the 3 3/4" stroke crank) The Canadian manufactured engines Mike mentions had the letter "C" in front of the engine type. (example; C8BA, C59A) It has been said that the casting quality of Canadian blocks is better, but side by side comparison of US and Canadian blocks doesn't show a big difference. It appears the same moulds were used. If Ford Canada used better quality steel/cast iron; they don't mention the fact in their archives. (that's not to say the quality of the castings wasn't better) For a detailed list of changes (by years) here is a site that gives some information ... http://www.35pickup.com/mulligan/fhtime.htm
Remember the 8BA 8RT engine was the most modern flathead manufactured from Ford, It even had a "normal" distributor. But Hot rodding is a Spectator / Namedropping sport. So to be able to say that you have a 59AB with a Merc crank, ite considered better the to say that you have a 8BA engine with a Merc crank. The changes between 59AB and 8BA is minor so its the condition of the engine you can lay your hands on is more importan that the differences between them.. Remember this is an opinon not necessery the truth.... But i stand with it.
Hi, i often hear that a 8BA has more ****** options than a 59AB , but it's not true in my option. On an 8BA you can use a "truck bellhousing", that makes it a 59AB pattern or a cast/stamped steel bellhousing for early Ford trans. Thats it. A 59AB pattern is probably the most ever used adapter pattern. You can bolt(with an adapter) nearly any trans to it. So, for an 8Ba you have to buy the "truck bellhousing" to get there Where is the advantage???? On an 8BA the bearings are cheaper and the coolant "routing" is alittle different and split vs. one piece valve guides. Stock dizzy ****s. If the 8BA is a runner and a good price buy, if not use the 59AB Michael
If you're looking for a running engine and have actually found one, no reason to question any more! If planning to build, go with best block you can find, as the differences are mostly in parts that will be discarded anyhow. For an A-V8, the early engines can be built a couple inches shorter, a big deal with a '29 Ford...but all the hardware can go on an 8BA IF you are going to change the cam. 59 and 99 engines always seem to have been preferred by racers and rodders except for late ch***is applications. Biggest 8BA h***le is ignition--stock distributor is marginal on a perfect stocker and lots worse on a tired engine or a rod. Replacement is a minefield--the obvious options require a good bit of work, and the long pumps needed to clear the distrib make the package longer. Also, many late engines lack hard valve seats, adding to expense at rebuild time. All externals can be swapped with a bit of fiddling, so you can put the early distrib on the 8BA. Either engine can be adapted to just about any trans. All postwar engines have revised coolant paths, partially adaptable to prewar 24 studders, though early and late paths differ due to exit location. I've never heard of different cracking problems--just be wary of engines that have been sitting for years exposed to cold weather.
Thanks for all the input, the 8ba fell through & sold to a fellow HAMBer, at least it went to a good home, so the 59ab it will be....................
One issue not brought up here is "time period". If you have a plan for your car as to look in a certain way/style this may be to consider. I build my AV8 in late 40's style. My Definition is: like a dualpurpose car used on the lakes after the war. Build may have started just before or right after the war. The clock stops around 1947 - 48 concerning parts. Leaves out the 8BA as an alternative, since the engine work would have been done pre 46-47. I realy like 49/50 Pontiac taillights but ....nope... to new to end up on my heap. I don't expect any of you to consider this beeing close to sane, but I find great interest in it and it my 2 cents. What you want in the end is the question. GOOD LUCK and Hop it Up real good. remember to post pics. We love it. Paul
The main thing I was going to bring up was overall length since you have to use longer pumps to clear the dist. Bruce pretty much covered that though. If you're just starting your build you're miles ahead. I wasn't planning far enough ahead and my entire car was a battle for space with victories won 1/4" at a time. I'm still fighting two battles - my tie rod and crank pulley.
The Jalopy Journal
