CNG Hot Rods

I filled up my 1/2 ton daily yesterday. $100. Good god, $100 to fill up a 1/2 ton? All I really haul is my stupid ass. Maybe four or five times a year something large enough to negate a full size truck. I dont really want to step down to a Toyota or other small truck that can't tow a car/boat trailer.
I'm thinking about a CNG conversion, or gasoline/CNG dual fuel option. Call me a hippy. Call me a pussy, but $100 a week is making me gas pump poor.(Europeans need not reply, I know your fuel is twice what ours is) I work for a utility company and we have a new program allowing the public to fill thieir CNG vehicles at our facility. I drive a CNG/gasoline truck at work, and I have no problems with it. Power is down when it runs CNG but I've heard that a little ignition and compression bump can really bring the power up.
CNG is an American fuel, costs the equivalent of $1.99 a gallon and is pretty well available here in the SF bay area. I've seen that tri power GTO running CNG, pretty sweet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvLi0ZU3PHA

Does anyone know what kits are good, what kits are junk? What are some of the pit falls of a CNG system? Will I have issues when I go to smog? Will Enron nazis come and kick my ass? Will this thread get deleted? I hope not. What's more american than not wanting to buy forigen oil? Any input is appreciated, mostly...

 

For a daily driver pickup I'd probably be looking to the same place that installs the conversions on the company rigs.

I can relate to the gas price thing as I passed the station that I stop a lot at as it usually has the lowest gas price in the state of Washington according to Gas buddies dot com and regular was 4.89 this morning there. And I drive a 3/4 ton that gets about 11mpg on a good day with a tail wind.

 

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A recent news article pointed out that the cost of converting to natural gas is so high that the conversion will NEVER pay off

 

Back in the 80's I drove a GMC Van daily that had been converted to the CNG's cousin - LPG (Propane). Very similar concept. Upsides were 50 cents a gallon (gas was $1.50 then), low emissions, spark plugs lasted a LONG time, Oil didn't get dirty, octane was 108. Downside was a 10% loss in power (easily made up for with more compression) and 10% loss in MPG (also made up for with more compression).
But the thing that made me finally sell it was the lack of places to fill up. Even though I carried 57 gallons, it was too easy to find myself somewhere that didn't have any stations and it is illegal to use propane that is designated for you BBQ as versus Road Fuel (even though in a pinch I have done it).
If it were readily available for a daily, I would certainly do it or CNG again!

 

Might take a look at RASO enterprises.... Lots of information and they sell the mixers and whatever else you may need... But I am inclined to agree with the previous posters... Good stuff for performance aint exactly cheap and the stations are still few and far between... but at least its out there

 

I knew a guy years ago who converted his Econoline van to propane and he used to run back and forth to Florida with it from NY. He claimed it to be cheaper than gas to operate and he did the conversion himself. Unless he was getting free propane somewhere and he wasn't telling me.

I would think that the conversion wouldn't be that difficult or that expensive.

Bob

 

You can do the conversion for around $3,000 if you do it your self, otherwise labor runs about $1500. (the kits you see for $1500 don't normally include the tanks, which are around $1500 also)
So if you drive the national average of 16,550 miles a year, and CNG cost 1.99, versus gas at the current average of 4.50, and assuming a 10% decrease in mileage, and his pickup getting 15MPG on gas, the first year savings would be $2525.39. So even if you had it done by a shop it would pay for itself in two years. Not to mention the savings on no more smog checks, longer spark plug life, longer oil life etc.

 

Oh boy, what have I got myself into? I scored this kit for 400. Plans are to get it going, hide the tanks and eventually build a motor that will capitalize on the power potential of CNG. Or put it in a box and keep it for when I'm done building my roadster. I don't want to get too distracted...

 

how are you going to fill your tanks?

 

I work for a utility company. We have a fill station open to the public where I report for work every day! I'm also working out a home fill device that will give me fuel for close to $1 a gallon.

 

Have you looked into a "Phill"? It's a pump that gets installed in your garage. It will compress the (extremely) low-pressure gas off your house supply to fill up your cars. I helped install a few of them (I'm a plumber). Fill ups take a while, but you pay the same price as natural gas going into your house. Even better if you have 2 CNG cars.

 

That $1.99 number is probably without road taxes. Fine while you get away with it, but if you have an envious neighbor or coworker who turns you in, then that might shift your pay back formula. Given that natural gas has been found in such abundance in the past few years this may become a trend. If it appears as viable for more than a boutique market, private dollars will expand the availability of fueling facilities on the open road which will expand your drivable range. I don't see federal subsidies helping build these fueling facilities, it doesn't serve the monetary interests of those who dole out those bux. But if it's real potential and not the pixie dust energy that wastes subsidies, private enterprise will step up. You might be a pioneer in the "new revolution", or just another boutique interest like french fry oil diesels.........time will tell.

 

what is your home fill device? how much pressure do these systems have in their tanks? the reason i'm asking is i have been thinking of makeing hydrogen gas, not HHO but pure H, and a CNG system should be able to be tuned to run on H, i have a great spot to make wind power to make my own hydrogen, thats the reason for my questions, i have been thinking of using a pressure washer pump to compress the H.

 

Yet another good reason to keep the neighbors out of your garage.

Those are big money. It would be cool though.

A full CNG tank is around 3000psi, give or take. It depends on how much has been compressed and dispensed at the fill station before you (and everyone else) get there...

 

Ka-boom

 

I just looked up the Phill. $4500. Holy crap!

 

What are these road taxes you speak of? I do have a few wacko neighbors. The type that bang on the garage door to see what I'm doing, even when it's closed.

 

My work has a direct line from a PGE high pressure main and our own compressing station. We fill everything from garbage trucks to pickups. 3600 psi all day long

 

I had a Skidster Bobcat that used gas and propane. Also had a wet feed on a 500 gallon propane tank that was handy for filling the bobcat tank, RV tanks and bbq tanks. When I changed propane companies, the new company would not install a wet feed on the tank due to insurance regulations and EPA rules.

Many years ago, Bruce Crower worked with SDG&E on converting company cars and light trucks to CNG. However, the city of San Diego banned refueling stations within the city limits due to fire/explosion hazards. The law has since been repealed. There was also a guy in El Cajon that did LP conversions for Briggs & Stratton motors used on lawn mowers.

 

When you pull up to the pump at a station for gasoline in Cali, 67 cents of the purchase price is for local, state, and federal taxes.......supposedly for road maintenance and construction. I hear in Cali you guys also pay regular sales tax as well, and if true, I don't know if that's in that figure. At your work, it wouldn't surprise me if the company logs the fills and pays the tax separately exempting fuel used for off road use from the road tax.

 

bob, the cng sold here in ca has all regular taxes applied just like regular gas.

fwiw, i drive/drove a dedicated cng ot car everyday to work. my commute is 120 miles round trip. been paying $1.99/gge for the last year. unfortunately i got rear ended in a hit and run and my car got totaled.

cng is f'ing awesome. 120 octane. burns clean. cheap. "made in usa". when you have a dedicated cng car the engine is usually purposefully built to be ran on cng. my ot car had 12:1 compression and had just as much (if not a little bit more) get-up-and-go as a regular gasoline powered car.

the tudor sedan i'm building has a turbocharged four banger (should make ~400 hp out of 2.0L) and i had planned on running e85 but now that it's no longer being subsidized the price has gone way up plus you can't get e85 ANYWHERE in orange county. i've been playing with the idea of going cng. 120 octane gas for $2/gal sure sounds good to me.

to the op: why not just buy a dedicated cng truck? they're on craigslist all the time and are usually pretty cheap. btw just to put some cost comparison on this, it used to cost me $6 to fill up my car after driving back and forth to work. i'm now back on my motorcycle (2003 buell xb9s) riding to work and it costs me almost twice as much to fill up my bike.... and it's a motorcycle!!

 

Does anyone have CNG hooked up to their hot rod? What does the tank look like? How big are they? There are not filling stations in my area, what are my alternatives?

 

The HAMB is dedicated to spreading the gospel of traditional hot rods and kustoms and CNG conversions to hoodlums world wide. That&#8217;s right &#8211; TRADITIONAL.

 

What he said...