is it a trad setup? prohably not.. would it be expensive yeah surely.. however I've honestly.. always wondered if this set up would actually ride better or not.. I mean whats the real reason for these swaps? is it to say hey lookie there at my rear axle.. its independant! another consideration is if the car will have fenders and a rear pan? if so you may not be able to see the rear axle at all. when i do a 34.. and I will someday. its gonna be smacked to the ground and nobody's gonna see any of the frame.
He he. Even a few HAMB'ers are infected by the "politically correct" virus, i guess! If someone wants to "lead me back to the correct taste", I'm too laid back to get spooked by words about my sexual preferences. Is part of the hotrod hobby changing to a lifestyle thing were it's important to turn the clock back a couple of decades and wear the right clothes, play the right music etc? I'm too old to bee told what hairstyle or what jacket I should wear, or what music I should play. I'm doing what hotrodders always have done: Searching wreckyards to find parts that make my car handle and preform better.Period. The reason for my question is this: The prices on a fairly good Jaguar axle here in Norway isn't much different from a stock 8" Ford. And then I talk about a Ford axle without differential, with drumbrakes, and in need of beeing shortened to fit the 34. It probably says alot more about the pricelevel on the Ford than on the Jaguar rear axle. Sawsall: It will be a setup with the original Jaguar parts, but without the Jaguar surround axleframe, of course. The axle is a S-type axle which don't need to be shortened. (55 inches wide). A Jaguar axle has very little un-damped weight(bad english, sorry) because the axle centrum, brake calippers and discs are mounted directly in the frame. In motorcycle racing for example, they talk about every saved un-damped kilo is 10 times better for handling than every saved damped kilo.This means better handling and much better damping carateristcs. But if this forum is all about steel axles, hey no hard feelings! There are a lot of other sources for courious people like me! By the way the front end will bee independent A-arms specially made for Mercedes spindles and brakes!
I'm running a jag rear in my 49 ford coupe, but it's not in there yet...I know you really won't see it in my car, but I just thought it would be cool to try it out... JP
The Jag rear in a rod has been traditional since the 50's. Dont bother listeing to the boneheads. There is a guy who used to check in here that had the XJ6 style under his 34 coupe. Cant remember his screen name but he is from New Jersey and you can probably find him on the RRT. He had full details, pix, etc on the conversion and install. I part out 3-4 XJ6's a year (rotted out from road salt) and have no problem selling rears and fronts to rodders.
I've installed 3 over the years. We put Jag front and rear suspension in my buddies 34 4dr full fendered sedan. The rears are easy to set up. Years later we put one in a 37 Chevy coupe so he must have liked it. He always had problems stopping it. I never got involved enough to find out what the problem was or if he ever was satisfied. They were a status symbol in the 70-80's. The start of the billet era. Did they ride any better? If you replaced an over sprung rusty Ford rear spring system, then you noticed a big difference. We didn't have spring vendors that taylored their parts to our needs. IMHO If you can't see the chrome U joints sparkling in the rear, then I don't think they are worth the money or effort. The inboard disc brakes are a PITA to work on. I let a free XJ6 sedan go to the scrap yard. There was not enough local interest to justify storing the lump waiting for a sale.
[ QUOTE ] Any comments on that? Advantages? Disadvantages? Stupid? Smart? [/ QUOTE ] The advantage is the fact that there is less unsprung weight with an indipendant rear end so the ride is better.The disadvantage is that a stock XJ rear is about 60" wide which is about 3" wider than you really need but if you can find, a very hard to find in this country, XKE you will be fine. The Shorter axles are available from Concource West at the cost of about $350 and you will have to shorten the A arms yourself or pay a shop to do that. The installation of the rear end is pretty simple but you have to be very careful to mount the forward control arms correctly so that the suspension geometry is not affected. There have been a lot of Jag rear ends that have been mounted in such a way that the axles will not travel and the car rides like a brick. If you are interested I can explain what you need to do to make sure that doesn't happen. Walt
[ QUOTE ] The reason for my question is this: The prices on a fairly good Jaguar axle here in Norway isn't much different from a stock 8" Ford. And then I talk about a Ford axle without differential, with drumbrakes, and in need of beeing shortened to fit the 34. It probably says alot more about the pricelevel on the Ford than on the Jaguar rear axle. Sawsall: It will be a setup with the original Jaguar parts, but without the Jaguar surround axleframe, of course. The axle is a S-type axle which don't need to be shortened. (55 inches wide). A Jaguar axle has very little un-damped weight(bad english, sorry) because the axle centrum, brake calippers and discs are mounted directly in the frame. In motorcycle racing for example, they talk about every saved un-damped kilo is 10 times better for handling than every saved damped kilo.This means better handling and much better damping carateristcs. But if this forum is all about steel axles, hey no hard feelings! There are a lot of other sources for courious people like me! By the way the front end will bee independent A-arms specially made for Mercedes spindles and brakes! [/ QUOTE ] ok.. now I see it.. I didnt really realize the situation over there.. good luck from what it sounds it seems like it may just work out for you.. good luck and post some pix sometime sawzall
Staleg The Jag rear makes better sense with the independent front. I always thought that an independent rear with a beam up front was just for show. I could be wrong. I don't recall jag rears in 50s era cars, not that it didn't happen I was just real young, but I do recall them gaining quite a bit of popularity in the '60s. So I guess it depends on which old school/trad your after if that's what's important to you. Anyway, set up right the independent in the rear is sweet. The one thing about the jag setup that makes it so right is also just a pain in the ass in my book. I hate workin' on the inboard brakes. Probably easier in a hotrod than in the original body though.
Here is a pic of my Jag setup on the 35. Some comments to the whiners: Of course nobody used jag IRS in their hot rods in the 50`s.They were the cutting edge pro race technology of its day. So the average rodder could never afford them. That axle was developed purly for racing in the 50`s and has a merited history. Later they took the same axle from the race cars and put it to street use in the e-type. Nowadays the reputation has somewhat been destroyd by the trailer queen chrome junkies. But in my world the jag setup is the real deal. And yes, the independent suspension has better handling characteristics than a heavy solid axle. I think any period correct Blown, injected, Ardun powered roadster, should use a jag IRS. It all fits in the same category. Stuff the average 50`s rodder would give their left arm to afford ,but didn`t use in the 50`s. My 2 c.
I dig em. They ride good, they're tough. They're realtively cheap. I got a whole XJ6 for a $100. I'm using the front suspension as well.
At first my plan was a 8 inch steel Ford rearend. Then I came across this S-type Jaguar rearend. The S-type is 55 inches and fits without shortening. It's a bad sight, but I've tried some of the bolts and they loosened surprisingly nice. When I opened the back it was still full of oil w/ no waterfilm and all the bare metal wheels in there where clean, shiny and 100% rust free! The discs are very rusty and must be changed for sure. The calippers looks fine on the outside and the emergency brake mechanism works. If I'm lucky they are rustfree inside. I'll send som "before" pictures soon, so you really can see what kind of s** rookies like me buy! Hopefully it also will come some "after" pictures in a while showing a rustfree rearend!
The jag S is the one to go with coz of the width, I had one in an A with a local "holden" IFS ( they look like shit, but ride well) So I had independant suspension on all four corners as well as discs. man that thing rode and handles fantastically, especailly when you look at the overall length of an A. I have attached a couple of web links on the subject that might help as here in OZ we are just about to get national hotrod registration guidelines and they mention jag rears and how to set them up. Have a look... Flatoz http://www.hot-rod.com.au/benchracing/viewtopic.php?t=358&highlight=jag http://www.dotars.gov.au/transreg/vsb/PDF/Street_COP_app_4.pdf
Thank you! The problem with the S-series Jag on 34 Ford is the aluminium hubs on each end. The just hit underneath the framereail instead of passing on the outside. The most common way to solve this is to C-ing the frame and remove a little aluminiun on top of the hub. Of course it's possible to make the whole kickup higher, but that's a little too hevy for my skills and it requires a lot of rebuilding in the trunk floor too. It's aldo possible to make the frame a little narrower just pass the hubs. About 1 1/2" on each side is enough. I'll see what I do. And I'm aware of the geometric needs when the stabilizing rods is to be fitted.
staleq Most of the Jag rears I have seen in 32-4 chassis have had exactly what you describe done to them. I guess that is the easiest was to make it all work. the front mounting points are the big things, basically you need to reproduce the "cage" that it sits in originally but minus the ugly
Actually it's all about mathematics and physical laws. That sounds boring, maybe, but on the other hand it's very logical when one got it described from others. The last 3-4 days I've had comtact with several people about the Jaguar rearend, I have collected several different suggestions of how the axle should be fitted (and I am aware of that some of the methods must not be mixed!) The most important is when the builder tells WHY he have done it the way he did. If he have an answer on thet, it's often a good setup. Even if we like old cars, a modern thing like the internett is very important for rodders like me. No one in my area build rods except me, and to hotrod old cars is a very rare hobby in Norway (Sweden is different thow, and thats very nice! Got lots of help from fellow rodders there.) And to you HAMB'ers: thank you for wiews, suggestions, and experience! By the way, in case someone still wonder: I'm not a gay.
Some tips when collecting parts for your setup. I chose to mount the axle with rubber bushings to isolate diff noise, I assume thats what you want to do too. I fabbed a new crossmember to mount the center section and coilovers. For the cross member I used Volvo 240 rear axle bottom trailing arm bushings in each end. For the torque arms in front of the diff I used Volvo 240 front sway bar bushings together with VW Golf 1 Brake pedal clevis joints. For the trailing arms I used a pair of Ford 32 rear wishbones together with OEM Jag rubber bushings in the rear and Ford Sierra front sway bar bushings up front. You could collect most of that stuff cheap at Biltema if you want. Btw. Jag parts is surprisingly cheap at the norwegian Jag dealer. Here is where I bought my stuff: http://www.jaguar.no
[ QUOTE ] You could collect most of that stuff cheap at Biltema if you want. [/ QUOTE ] oh they have invaded norway aswell? holy cow...
Thank you! Very valuable information! Do you have pictures of that setup? Or maybe a drawing? If you want you can also contact me on my homepage http://home.online.no/~staalgi/index.cfm And again thank you! Biltema is in Norway too. It has been here for many years now. They have some good things (some of the tools, aircompressors, fiberglass kits) and some very bad things (spraypaintboxes, exhaust)
yeah i know biltema got some good stuff but also alot of shitty stuff, just cant help feeling going into a supermarket when 50% of the stuff is boat and garden stuff... soon they will start to sell food or something
[ QUOTE ] Some tips when collecting parts for your setup. I chose to mount the axle with rubber bushings to isolate diff noise, I assume thats what you want to do too. I fabbed a new crossmember to mount the center section and coilovers. For the cross member I used Volvo 240 rear axle bottom trailing arm bushings in each end. For the torque arms in front of the diff I used Volvo 240 front sway bar bushings together with VW Golf 1 Brake pedal clevis joints. For the trailing arms I used a pair of Ford 32 rear wishbones together with OEM Jag rubber bushings in the rear and Ford Sierra front sway bar bushings up front. You could collect most of that stuff cheap at Biltema if you want. Btw. Jag parts is surprisingly cheap at the norwegian Jag dealer. Here is where I bought my stuff: http://www.jaguar.no [/ QUOTE ] That's the same way I've always done it. I picked a generic heavy truck bushing from their front end parts bins that fit. The only thing I would add would be to try to get the forward mounting point for the radius rods to intersect with a line drawn through the the pivot points of the lower control arm.
[ QUOTE ] Some tips when collecting parts for your setup. I chose to mount the axle with rubber bushings to isolate diff noise, I assume thats what you want to do too. I fabbed a new crossmember to mount the center section and coilovers. For the cross member I used Volvo 240 rear axle bottom trailing arm bushings in each end. For the torque arms in front of the diff I used Volvo 240 front sway bar bushings together with VW Golf 1 Brake pedal clevis joints. For the trailing arms I used a pair of Ford 32 rear wishbones together with OEM Jag rubber bushings in the rear and Ford Sierra front sway bar bushings up front. You could collect most of that stuff cheap at Biltema if you want. Btw. Jag parts is surprisingly cheap at the norwegian Jag dealer. Here is where I bought my stuff: http://www.jaguar.no [/ QUOTE ] Pic: Its one thing I wonder about trailing arm location though. As you see I have mounted them in line as recomended, but on stock Jags the trailing arms dont line up with the link at the center section at all. They are about 30 inches long with soft rubber bushings and they point straight forward? Explanation anyone?
I just installed Jag rear end in 30' model A. Can supply info. and pics to any one interested dladrigan@live.com
Take a look at this site for installing a Jag IRS in a 34 Ford. http://www.snowwhiteltd.com/inst_33-34fordcross.htm
Like Flatoz, I used a 420 Jag IRS in my '35 Chevy along with an Ozzie Holden IFS (Similar to old Chevy Corvair). I used F&R sway bars and yes, it has 4WDB. Rides a treat with OEM springs and local R&P steering. It's been on the road 6+ yrs now and clocked over 30K with no issues. Rides better than a beam axle and leaf springs any day. Horses for courses so they say. If mounted correctly and geometry maintained, you won't be disappointed.
I thought independant rears where frowned upon here. I have a vette in my rpu and was asked not to post it. To over the top i was told.
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