Traditional manual trans options 56 324 Olds?

Hey all.. I need some help. Education, parts sources, whatever useful information you might be able to offer.

My project thread can be found here:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=630548

the motor I'm working with is a 56 Olds 324. It had a 53 flat pan hydra-matic behind it. Transmission guy opened it up and says it's trashed. Not even a good core. So, I started looking for cores, and as of now I have no viable options for good 53 Olds cores.

I'm now open to a manual trans option, if I can afford it, because the H-M is just proving to be a pain in the ass to retain.

I would prefer a top loader, if possible.

Anyone have options for me? I spotted the real nice side loader that's not too far from me, but the shifter, clutch, fork, and pressure plate have been sold. DAMN!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=686275

How big a deal is it really to get those parts again? I left a message for the seller to call me.

Other options?

 

Are you aware that most of the "traditional" types will be a non-syncro first gear? Some people might not want that type in heavy slow traffic or where there are too many stop signs.

If you don't care, then that 50 Olds will be good. (BTW, that Olds is a bottom load, side shift) The clutch parts are still available at an old parts place I use. $50 new disc plus 10 core charge, $80 pressure plate, not sure if there is a core on that. The output yoke is missing on that trans. Some say Powerglide yoke will fit? Some GM yokes are just a couple of thou different and seem to fit, but I am not sure how they will last. example: a 50K mile 66 Chevy C10 3 speed yoke I have, will fit perfect on my 41K mile 51-up Olds stick trans, but the Olds yoke won't quite fit onto the chevy C10 trans...so there is a very slight difference.

Adapting a typical 3 speed shifter will be easy for that Olds trans.

37 LaSalle top shift, bottom load trans is another choice; it uses the same 50 Olds bell and clutch pieces.

You probably won't find a 37 buick top shift trans with later 51-up Olds gears too quickly, but that is top shift, top load. This needs the 51 up Olds bell, but the same clutch parts as above.


One very cool trans is the pre 65 Ford ,big body, car 4 speed Borg T-10. That is used with the old aftermarket "Olds-t0-49up Ford trans" bellhousing. 4 speeds with all four syncro.

 

Chevy 4 speed would pre-date the Ford 4 speed by a few years, but finding an old aftermarket bell will be very tough. Trans dapt made one for Olds to Chevy truck which can be used with a chev Borg T10. ...or you can get a modern aftermarket chevy bell if you don't care.

One very obscure way to put a Chevy trans to an Olds is by using the old flat plate adapter made to put an Olds to a flathead trans, but then find the special shorty Offy Flathead to Chevy bell that is 5/8" shorter to fit that Olds plate. Offy does now repro the shorty bell in 2 types: One uses a chevy TOB fork, the other uses a Ford TOB cross-shaft for use in Ford chassis/pedal cluster. Wickedly expensive way to do a Chevy trans conversion.

Cheapest trans to use is the side shift, bottom load, non syncro first, LaSalle/Cad long tailshaft 3 speed. These can be had for $200 or so. Uses the 50 Olds bell. Shifter would be the same as the 50 Olds.

Lastly, the stock Olds 51-59 non syncro first, top load, side shift 3 speed transmission, but the odd shifter is rare, and it's not easy to make one.

 

I have a core to bad to bad your so far away

 

I know they were offered with factory 3-speeds, can't recall if 1st gear was synchronized. If you can get all the parts, another later gear box will probably fit, good luck rounding up all the related parts.

Bob

 

There is a fella on Ebay that sells new mount kits for the shifters to be attached to the older Lasalle and '50 Olds side shift trannys. He often times has Hurst shifters for sale as well.

 

Frank, that does surprise me that first is non synchro. The little three speed truck trans of that era that would have come in the 39 is synchrod where the four speed is a crash box. I know it'd theoretically be easier to use a 350 but that's just not interesting to me. The truck was built in the late 50's or early 60's with the 324 and that has become a big part of the appeal for me.

As far as the trans goes, I'm a bit more flexible. I may even look into a newer manual trans like the A833 and get an OD out of the deal. Just a question of adaptation and dimensions... It's all up in the air.

I would think that the later olds side shift three speed unit would be synchrod into first. Again, the side shift three speed truck trans from 49-55.1 Chevy is synchrod in all gears, only the sm420 remained non synchro in first because of the ultra low gearing.

 

No, the Olds 51-59 3 speed is non syncro first. Not to dusrespect, but from memory, the Chevy 3 speed full syncro was a 1960s option and not available in the 1950s.

 

had a 57 olds with a 3 speed from factory but sold trans and stuff and juked it 40 year ago
got to be3 some stuff out there

 

Well, I'm just going from memory, but I swear that the bone stock 46 chevy half ton I drove (3 on the floor) was fully synchronized... Maybe not. 39 to 47 3 speeds were all the same. In any case, non synchro first is not a deal breaker, it's just not ideal.

 

Both my Olds powered rods have non syncro 1st gear 3 speeds. Neither car is on the road yet, but I am pretty sure the low end torque of the Olds motors will let me grunt in 2nd gear at those "rolling stop, stop signs"

 

Well maybe the one I linked to is the answer... The output shaft is 16 spline, and 1.17"
That sound familiar to anyone?

 

If 2nd gear is too high for rolling stops, double-clutching is an option. When done right, it's as smooth as with synchros. It's a little scary at first but you learn quickly because get a black and blue hand if you don't match the gear speeds correctly. I spent three summers out of high school many times driving a '53 White dump truck and a '56(?) International packer truck, both 5-speeds with no synchros up or down. My '50 Olds is getting a Cadillac-LaSalle 3-speed behind a 324. There's lots of them on this board and auction sites.

 

If you are talking about the green trans in the classifieds here; Take a look at the enlarged pic showing the gears:

-see the rearmost gear on the lower cluster? Now look at the 3rd tooth down from the top on that rear gear. You should be able to see some moderate chipping on the rear of that tooth.

-That chipping is caused by crunching the non syncro into first, before the car has stopped. That chip does not bother me, but:

- The (hidden) gear directly above that one, is called "first/reverse sliding gear". A replacement gear is very difficult to find in usable condition, if you find that it is chewed up bad enough to need replacing. That sliding gear normally chips more than the lower gear on the cluster that we can see. So, I would want to peek around that cluster to get a look at the slider gear teeth.


as far as size and spline count, I no longer have those parts to compare, but it looks to be stock 50 Olds. Nothing else will fit in that trans except a shortened and resplined Cad/LaS long tail type shaft, and I doubt that was done on that trans.

 

Thanks for that, Frank. I asked the seller for more pics and or information on those gears before I pull the trigger. The other issue is flywheel... What would I do about that?

 

Oh, and starter tooth count? Is my 56 hydro starter an issue?

 

Logic says that if your starter is good, then stay with the same tooth count type ring gear on the flywheel. So, I assume your starter is the 1956?, then stay with the bigger flywheel.

Stick flywheels can be found used, or repro from Ross I would think, and maybe other vendors.

 

What about a Packard trans - from the thirties (top-shift) to the 50's?

 

My brother has 2 compete Buick 37 floor shift set ups. Dan griffin 479 973 4331

 

All 3 speeds were non synchro first up to 1962, Ford had the first all synchro 3 speed.

Nobody cared because you never had to shift down to first when you were moving. With the old high torque engines and low rear gears once you got rolling you could go everywhere in 3d or on a real stiff climb, shift down to 2nd.

As others have pointed out you can shift to low by double clutching. It isn't hard once you get the hang of it but not necessary either.

The hot setup in the fifties was an Olds V8 with 1937 up Cadillac/LaSalle transmission but good luck finding one now.

 

Buick trannys have to have the 6 bolt top cover if I remember correctly and then the 51 + Olds selector trans gut will fit inside it. I think F&J just did this a while back. That flywheel that Dale has in Temecula may be the small tooth count unit as I think the engine was a 49. Have him count the teeth, only way to tell correctly.

 

Kingshift on here

 

Noticed that Bell Auto in Bakersfield has a bunch of cad stuff on Ebay. Trying to sell it as as bulk deal. Most likely won't succeed. Had a bunch of cad trannys and shifters etc. Might be a good lead for you.

 

just got off the phone with the seller and he verified that the first reverse slider is in great shape.

So, I think I'm gonna pull the trigger. I need an output yoke, flywheel, clutch and pressure plate, and a shifter setup... He does have the clutch fork and throw out bearing that go with it.

 

Make sure you get the throw out bearing snout. It may be stuck on the input shaft of the tranny or stuck in the bell housing. Just don't leave home without it!!

 

Any chance you can point me to a pic of the part I'm looking for? Not familiar with the term snout in this context. Thanks for all the help, btw.

 

Never mind... I know what you mean. The sleeve the bearing rides on. Will do!

 

hey there...

i have a 56 dual range hydramatic sitting at my shop..
it needs a rebuild (i also have the number from a guy to rebuild it)
but all the parts are there... your welcome to it.. and a shop manual to go with it..

i live in Down Town L.A., so it's not that far from ya... i also have a sag. 4 speed and complete shifter set up...

pm me if yer interested in either

 

Some of the real old guys call it a candlestick. I am pretty sure it was shown in one of the pics. There are 2 sizes, make sure the big end fits into the bell housing...but it must be the right one if that setup was bolted together when he got it.

 

Now that there is a deal!