Olds 394 timing problem?

Hello!

I'm rebuilding my first engine (oldsmobile 394 cui from 1960).
Bought an deluxe rebuild kit that also included new camshaft (from a starfire), timing chain and sprockets.
Now to the problem, I can't seem to get the marks on the sprockets to line up.
The cylinder #1 is in TDC and I know that the crank sprocket marking should be at 12 o clock while the cam sprocket marking should be at 6 o clock, right?

It doesn't mather how I install the sprockets, the marks will always have a little distance. I can't get the cam sprocket to get at exactly 6 o clock.
Is this how it is meant to be or have I done something wrong?
How much will this do for the timing, will the engine run correctly?
Maybe it has something to do with the swap to a starfire camshaft?

I also noticed that the marks on the old sprockets were bigger than on the new ones.

Pictures of the markings:
http://oi45.tinypic.com/2qiplcj.jpg
http://oi48.tinypic.com/rh66tv.jpg (red line where it's supposed to be??)

Greetings,
Andreas from Sweden

 

Andreas,
I always line the marks up, to start with. I don't have a book that goes that far back so I can't give you an accurate answer but I always line the marks up.

Let me ask you this when the marks are lined up is it before top dead center, maybe the starfire cam is advance from the factory.

Will the marks line up at 12 oclock and 12 oclock?

OK I looked at your pics and my timming set from my 394. Your marks are in the right place. if your marks don't line up exactly then line up the valley on the top sproket with the tooth on the bottom sproket.

Like this:

 

I will try the 12 o clock and 12 o clock, returning with an answer soon .
The problem is when I put the chain on, it's like the chain won't let me have the sprockets to line up. Before the chain is on, there is no problem. But the chain has the same number of links as the old one.

 

I am sending goatroper02 a PM in case I have given you bad information.

My timming set is gennie GM and my marks are identical you yours. One thing not to worry about is where the piston is in its travel unless you are degreeing the cam shaft in which case you are going to end up using an offset key anyway.

 

Andreas, you are correct in the pics

There was acually a tool from GM for these Olds that makes it easier to see when aligning the marks......tool is rare....I dont even have one

We always use a degree wheel when installing a cam.....But that is our backround...I understand not everyone can

Tony

 

Thanks for all help!

I could turn the crankshaft just a little bit more without having the piston to start move back down, I think that solved the problem.

This is a picture of how it looks now:
http://oi45.tinypic.com/2zi54pv.jpg

I think it's better than before, do you think it's good enough?
If it is, I will start mount the timing cover and oil pan later .

Again, thanks for all help and information

 

That upper timing mark is stamped off a little, it should be centered in the valley between the two teeth.

 

Looks like it was mis- marked by a hair. You could contact the manufacturer, maybe they'll send you a new piece.. for peace of mind.

Bob

 

They are all like this....I gave explanation a couple posts ago

Tony

 

I must have missed it and don't recall running into the issue on my 394 when I was putting it back together.

Bob

 

that looks better

 

Does anyone know the correct ft/lbs for the three camshaft sprocket bolts?

I can't find it in the service manual for the engine and I don't want to break the bolts or tighten them too loose :/

 

I feel a foolproof way to check if a cam is in time is to check what is often called the rock over. That is when the piston is moving up and chasing the exhaust valve. Just before the piston comes all the way up the exhaust will close and just as the piston starts down again the intake begins to open. The valves should be "rocking" open & closed if you move the crank back & forth bringing the piston up and down from the deck.

If you are off a tooth (or teeth) the valves will not be remotely close to rocking. Even with a heavy overlap cam the pistons and valves will be doing this dance. With a bit of creative thinking you can move the cam timing around in the rockover position and find the correct timing point.

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Should you be off just a little, it would be nice to see what is available for offsetting the sprockets to get the rock over closer. It has been many years since I worked on a first generation OHV Olds & I cannot recall if the sprockets were both keyed.<!-- sig --><!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

 

What size are the bolts? I'll look tonight in my Motors Manual, but I'm sure we can come up with a good torque for you.

Bob

 

14-22 lbs

 

The bolts are 1/2.

 

Ah thanks

 

That sounds about right, good find. My guess is that they're probably a 5/16-24 thread.

I'm usually pretty good at coming up with torque specs for just about anything, but when I do help someone out, I usually get a rash of posts from the "experts" telling me I'm wrong. My calculations come up with 16-21 ft-lbs.

Bob

 

that was taken from my '59 shop manual, actually listed as fuel pump eccentric bolts

 

If the eccentric runs off the cam gear (forget.. had my olds 394 apart many moons ago..) the info is correct.

Bob