Just bought this to put on my 2CV powered trike; I was originally looking for an Aisin AMR 500 from a 600cc Subaru Vivio. The one I was bidding on went for way over £500. This is from a Nissan Micra SuperTurbo (1000cc) and went for £100. It's much smaller than an Eaton M45 or or M24 but not as small as the AMR500. However, I can play around with pulley size. It currently has an electric clutch but I think I will ditch that and run it full time in a draw through style. I need to lower the compression of my engine and I'll having some spacers for the bottom of the barrels laser cut. The carb is easy to set up as it is an SU and there's a huge choice of needles. The real difficulty is sorting out the drive to the supercharger. Any tips, advice etc on setting up a blower will be welcomed - I'm sure I'll get all the negativity and predictions of doom I'll need from the 2CV boys. I've already been warned of the certainty of seizures (pistons - not me presumably). No big deal as a new pair of pistons and barrels is £125. It's going in this BTW;
It's a Blackjack Avion - a kit made in Cornwall UK. O/T but a lot of rodders seem to like it despite the 602cc engine. I'm just in the middle of a total rebuild that started as dealing with a few paint scratches. It's now a body off respray and refurb with extensive rechroming, polishing and custom made bts to be fitted.... Can't leave well alone.
Even though it's a modern-day kit, it is a recreation of a '20's -'30's vintage UK & Euro-style three-wheel racer/hill climb car so, in my mind anyway, its not totally off topic here - and hopping it up by adding a roots-style blower to it is definitely "traditional". All in all, a very cool project. Maybe some here will disagree, but I say "thumbs up" on it! Mart3406 =============
I like it too......cool vehicle. One of my greatest regrets is having sold a 2CV Charleston several years ago. One of these would ease the pain Ray
The guy who designed them is Richard Oakes (who will be known to US VW fans as the designer of the Nova kit car). He now produces a Moto Guzzi powered kit that is available in So Cal. http://www.blackjackzero.com/mainindex.htm I know that my trike is OT but I think the general advice on supercharging odd engines will be useful to many HAMBers. I do have an on-topic car too; 1921 Model T One Ton Truck ch***is (boxed, pinched and Zee'd) fitted with 30's Ford suspension, F1 brakes, 347 Pontiac with a 3 speed. Body is a 27T Touring front with custom sail panels and a 1919 back.
Hi Blackjack looks like a fun project. Im jealous, or I would be if I didnt have my own Frankenstein engine to play with Yup looks like the drive is going to be the most interesting bit if you want to hide it all under the bodywork. Some sort of drive shaft from a belt off the front pulley and mount the 'charger on top of the gearbox I guess. I was going to get a second standard pulley, cut out the centre section and weld it edge to edge with the existing pulley to create a new double row pulley. <O</O <O</O Have you got Alan Allard's book "Turbocharging and Supercharging"? Some good stuff in there on theory and installations. Might want to have a look at your cam and ignition timings less is more<O</O <O</O I've recently built a one off engine/head setup and the best tip I can give you is fit a lambda sensor / air fuel ratio meter. It gives you real time info on the road for what mixture your SU is producing at different rev / throttle opening positions. Also get Burlens SU needle profile chart and plot what you're getting on a graph and use that to work out what needle you want to try next.<O</O <O</O I'm running two twin choke solexes on an overhead inlet converted flathead ford 100e engine and I took two sets of carbs (smaller ended up being better!) 13 sets of jets (7 main 6 air) and three sets of plugs at different temperatures to get to where I think it's running right. Without the AF gauge I would have spent thousands on dyno / rolling road time. Time to go to the dyno now!<O</O <O</O Mind you there's nothing more rewarding to know you've built an engine that is like nothing anybody else has and it runs like a scalded cat!<O></O> Phil
Phil - thanks for the advice. I could easily fit a lambda sensor in the loop. Sounds like it will make life a lot easier. Do you plug it into a laptop to read the output or is there an instrument you can fit to the dash?
Hi Blackjack. I used a Lumenition head unit which just takes the output from the lambda sensor and sits under the dash where it cant be seen unless you're sitting in the drivers seat. It gives an output by lighting up an LED against a scale showing weak => rich. There are needle type gauges out there but they all light up with blue neon / smoked gl*** dials etc. and I didnt want that in my car<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o> <o> </o> I think you could hook it up to a data logger but you really need to be able to relate mixture strength against engine speed, throttle opening and load which the Mk1 human computer can do fairly easily. <o></o> <o> </o> What SU size are you running?<o></o>
When you get that one set up like you want it's gong to be "get in, shut up and hang on" That looks like it will be a wild ride if you get the blower hooked up.
Thanks for that - I've seen the Lumenition unit and it would work well. I'm running a 44 HIF - sounds huge for a 602cc engine but it sits on a plenum chamber that is divided down the centre by a plate and this effectively gives you a twin choke carb with 22mm chokes. It has worked really well for tens of thousands of miles now and I get about 55 MPG with it.
I read the Alan Allard book when I was planning to put a Shorrock C75B supercharger on my Fiat Abarth ( 20, 25 years or so ago...) I didnt think it was as helpfull as I hoped it would be, because when he wrote it he was really into turbo's and he doesnt talk much about the Shorrocks. I even called him and he was nice enough, but it was clear they were just outdated tech for him at the time, and he didnt seem that interested in them anymore. I think this is a cool project... Maybe you can drop the compression ratio if you need to by putting rings under the barrels. And if the pistons seizing up would be a problem, that can probably be solved by changing the tolerances.
Thanks for the advice. I was planning to use the spacer shims from a 1200 VW to lower the CR to about 7.25 as they are just the right size. I think the seizures are just the latest doom predictions of the 2CV restoration crowd. When I first built the car I had people coming up at car shows saying that I would have the pistons sieze on my journey home because I had removed the tinware and the fan. That was 50,000 miles ago. I did look at a turbo but I think this will be easier.
“People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.” George Bernard Shaw
Good ol' GBS.... ;-) Thanks for all the positive comments. I've had the car on the road since 1998 and I'm just doing a major freshen up - new paint (in the same grey as the new Morgan trike), sorting out star cracks, repolishing ally, rechroming, fabbed a new ally fuel tank to replace the gl***fibre one, new clutch, brake upgrades, relocating stuff, new and nicer brackets - you know how it goes. Lots of time on stuff no one cares about but me.... made a coil bracket and drilled it to death, spent hours smoothing and painting steering arms that are rough as a bear's **** as they come from Citroen. Fitted new flyscreens - brooklands style but with a small ally cowl. They are intended for a 1930's MG T series of some sort. I want it to be as stunning as it was when first built and I think a supercharger will be the icing on the cake.
Who needs shoulder straps when your doors are giving you a loving hug while you drive! Looks like a heck of a lot of fun!!!
2CV supercharger pulley on Ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2CV-SUPER...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cc596cd7b thought you might be interested
Blackjack, could you tell me where you got those windshields from? And, if I'm not to much, about how much they cost?
Most sensors just produce different ohm readings so also add oxygen sensor, etc as you want & initially hook up a cheap multi- meter to them to read the info. You may not need it past tuning time? Used sensors are usually extra cheap at the wrecking yard.
I don't know. That trike looks like it might be kind of loud. Probably rides a bit rough too. It's likely to be too dangerous for a young child like that to ride in. I'll bet she absolutely LOVES IT!!!
Blackjack, I'm a fan of odd supercharged engines. Just a couple of important things to consider when supercharging any engine: I don't know what your combustion chamber shape looks like on the CV2, but if it has a quench area, you will probably mess it up by trying to reduce compression with barrel spacers. Good quench is important on any engine for combustion efficiency, but it's even more important on a supercharged motor to reduce detonation tendencies. Your target of 7.5:1 is OK, but it does not need to be that low...anywhere from 8.5:1 to 9:1 is OK for a supercharged engine on pump gas. If you need to reduce your compression ratio, increasing the combustion chamber somehow (probably by machining) without altering whatever quench area you may have, is really the way to go. Another thing, with water cooled supercharged engines, ring gap is always increased compared to what it would be in a normally aspirated engine, simply because more heat will go into the piston as your boost pressure goes up. On an air cooled setup like yours, increasing the ring gap will be even more critical to keep from seizing the pistons in the bore if the gaps are too small. When the boost comes on, so does the heat...compensating is required. You will also want to take out some ignition lead when you run that blower....ideally if you can reduce it as a function of boost, that would be best. But you can always just set the timing back like most supercharged applications before boost referenced timing retard systems, like the MSD 6-BTM, although the engine will not run as efficiently off boost, with the retarded timing. Blowers sure are a kick in the seat of your pants when the power comes on...just as long as the motor holds up. Good luck.
270 CI - thanks for those very helpful comments. The combustions chamber on a 2CV engine is perfectly hemispherical with relatively large valves as standard. Stock CR is 8.5:1. I'm going to look at programmable electronic ignition so I can alter the curve. The manual says ring gap should be .20mm to .35mm - any suggestions as to how much I should increase it? ClayMart - she really likes it a lot. She has ridden in it since she was a few weeks old. I used to have her baby seat bolted in there.
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