Ok I have been all over the net well almost all over the net. I got an FE on my drive that came to me as out of a 66 bird. Anyway I am sending it to Oklahoma, I want to be able to give the fella that is after it more than what I was told. My Chiltons says that the stamped nimber on the pad will give you the year and what wengine it is as well as what it was supposed to be in. problem is that my Chiltons only goes back to '69. So here goes, the stamped number on the pad at the top of the block above the oil filter is 6K04-D. is the engine code and the 6 is the year it was manufactured. A little help if you please. Thanks benno
All 427s were cross bolted mains so thats an easy id. I've seen d markings on a lot of fe's. Its a November '66 block. If you look at the casting id it should be a C6SE for a t bird.
Not a 427 not cross bolted. Also the exhaust manifold bolts are in the wrong place. Being out of a bird it could be a 428 as well as a 390.
That is actually a stamped number, that should tell you what the actual engine that it is and what it came in originally. I am guessing that it is a D code car. The aluminum tag on the intake says it is a '65 390 but those tags are real changable. But you are correct, I google things all the time and it leads me back to the thread I am on or just left.
My bad. Here's a site I found with helping out what vehicle it's from, but as far as I can tell the only way to know for sure whether it's a 390 or a 428 is to start dis***embling it, as there aren't any surefire indicators on the exterior of the engine. http://www.mustangtek.com/FordDecode.html
^^^^^That's a very good site to understand Fords casting numbers^^^^^^^^^^^^ Numbers on FE's are not reliable. All you will ever be able to determine is what year and month the engine was made. They are not model specific for casting dates or casting numbers. I have had several engines that have the correct numbers for a 428 but they end up being 390's from god knows where.
I was under the impression (based on the link I posted above) that it was possible to find out at most the application, if you wanted to know more than that (i.e. the actual displacement) you had to tear it down.
Get number one to the top, get a stick, put it in the cylinder and make a mark against the valve cover rail. Do the same with number four, now measure between your two marks. If it is 3.98, it is a 428, 3.78 will be a 390.
There is usually a casting number on the side of the block near the freeze plug, and date around the oil filter mounting pad - pic is of my '64 390. Head casting numbers are near the center two spark plugs but usually pretty cruddy. All FE blocks will have "352" cast into the block somewhere - don't rely on that. Some later truck blocks are really difficult to id as they can have no external identification at all, or in the case of some 70's blocks which are the same casting number for 360 and 390 Internally the only difference is the rotating ***emblies. In that case the only answer is to pull a head and measure bore and stroke.
At first I thought you meant with the head still bolted on - I was scratching my head trying to figure out how you'd take a measurement through the spark plug hole
The casting numbers only tell you what they were originally designed for, so basically unless I bought the car and pulled the motor myself I would not pay any attention to the casting numbers. I would also guess that the numbers would not match the car anyway. The only numbers on the whole engine that are worth looking at are the stamped numbers on the crank and the casting date. At least then you can tell what range you are in for cubes because many of the motors used the same cranks. Like stated before the only way to really know is to tear it down and measure the stroke.
Isn't the bore different between the 390 and 428 as well? Would it be easier to measure the bore instead?
Although I've never done this, I've heard about it done often enough as a quick way to determine the stroke of the motor and thus the displacement. Those two cylinders are opposite in the firing order so one will be TDC while the other BDC. The difference is the stroke. A 390 is roughly just over 3 3/4 inches and a 428 is roughly 4 inches. And for reference a 352 or 360 is 3 1/2 inches. And yes, you can do it with the head bolted on. But no, you cannot determine the bore this way.
With the proper tools you can measure the displacement or the volumn of the cylinder then multiply the number of cylinders. It won't give you bore and stroke but it will tell you what CID engine you have.
critchdizzle, I should have put stroke/bore thats a my bad. effie, that only tells you what crank you have and not what CID it is because bores are different between different CID engines with the same crank. The only way to actually tell the exact CID is to use the fancy CID calculator beener was talking about or to tear it down and measure the bore and stroke. shoprat, so does a merc 410 because it uses a 428 crank. <table cl***="wikitable" align="right"><tbody><tr><th>Displacement</th> <th>Bore</th> <th>Stroke</th> </tr> <tr align="left"> <td>332 cu in (5.4 L)</td> <td>4.000 in (101.6 mm)</td> <td>3.300 in (83.8 mm)</td> </tr> <tr align="left"> <td>352 cu in (5.8 L)</td> <td>4.002 in (101.7 mm)</td> <td>3.500 in (88.9 mm)</td> </tr> <tr align="left"> <td>360 cu in (5.9 L)</td> <td>4.052 in (102.9 mm)</td> <td>3.500 in (88.9 mm)</td> </tr> <tr align="left"> <td>361 cu in (5.9 L)</td> <td>4.047 in (102.8 mm)</td> <td>3.500 in (88.9 mm)</td> </tr> <tr align="left"> <td>390 cu in (6.4 L)</td> <td>4.052 in (102.9 mm)</td> <td>3.784 in (96.1 mm)</td> </tr> <tr align="left"> <td>391 cu in (6.4 L)</td> <td>4.052 in (102.9 mm)</td> <td>3.784 in (96.1 mm)</td> </tr> <tr align="left"> <td>406 cu in (6.7 L)</td> <td>4.130 in (104.9 mm)</td> <td>3.784 in (96.1 mm)</td> </tr> <tr align="v"> <td>410 cu in (6.7 L)</td> <td>4.054 in (103.0 mm)</td> <td>3.980 in (101.1 mm)</td> </tr> <tr align="left"> <td>427 cu in (7.0 L)</td> <td>4.232 in (107.5 mm)</td> <td>3.784 in (96.1 mm)</td> </tr> <tr align="left"> <td>428 cu in (7.0 L)</td> <td>4.132 in (105.0 mm)</td> <td>3.980 in (101.1 mm)</td></tr></tbody></table>
PUll the pan and look for a 1 U on the back journal...If so its a 428...if not then its a 390. Call it a day. Or look for the aluminum tag on the intake.
1U is a 428 or could be a 410. It could also be a C6ME which is also a 428 along with other numbers and even just letters stamped on FE cranks. See what the problem is with using the numbers alone instead of tearing it down and measuring it?
The aluminum tag on the intake says it is a '65 390 but the stamped number on the block from what I have been able to ascertain says that it is a '66. The last digit in the code is supposed to be the engine family from what I have read. IE like 390 2V 390 4V, 428 CJ, 428 PI etc. I would have been happy to go with the aluminum tag if it were not for the fact that I undid the bolt holding it on with my fingers.
If only it were that easy but the best you can get from numbers is really a production date and general info. Welcome to why there is a "whats my FE" thread once a week.
A few things don't add up here, so more info is needed. I'm asked these questions quite often from T-bird owners restoring their cars and have chronicled the following from Ford service/parts literature and service bulletins. 1. Aluminum ID Tag: What numbers/letters are stamped into the aluminum ID tag? There should be two lines of information on the tag - the first would have the engine CID (390 or 428), a single letter for engine ***embly plant (C=Cleveland, C1=Cleveland Engine Plant #1, C2=Cleveland Engine Plant #2, D=Dearborn, E=Windsor, L=Lima, W=Windsor, W1=Windsor Engine Plant #1, W2=Windsor Engine Plant #2), and '65' or '66' to designate model year. A '65' would indicate it's a '65 model year engine, when the only T-bird engine was a 390. If there is a number following the year code this indicates the change level for US-built engines. Now look at the second line of the tag - the first character will be a number indicating year engine was ***embled, '5' 1965, '6' for 1966. Next will be a dash followed by a letter that corresponds with the month the engine was ***embled. If there is a '5' for the year and a letter between the range of G and M (G=July, H=August, J=September, K=October, L=November, M=December, I wasn't used) then the engine that the tag came from was yanked out of an early production '66 T-bird, but if this was the case then the model year code on the top line should be '66, so I ***ume the tag came off another car. The year-month code should be followed with a 3-digit number that corresponds with the engine code and a single letter suffix that used for the design level ID ranging upwards as time progressed, starting with 'A': for '65-'66 the 390 used code number '357'; '66 used code numbers '400, '401', and '410' for the 428. If a number follows the design level code letter suffix, this indicates the change level for a Canadian-built engine. So, a tag reading 390 C 65 1 5-A 357 J is a 390 built in Cleveland for '65 model year, first change level, ***embled in January of 1965. Now, read the next paragraph. 2. "So here goes, the stamped number on the pad at the top of the block above the oil filter is 6K04-D. is the engine code and the 6 is the year it was manufactured." The ***embly date code given indicates that the block was ***embled well after '66 T-bird production was halted in early June '66, and therefore would indicate, if it came out of a T-bird, that it came out of a '67. 390s and 428s were used in '66 and '67 T-birds, with the engine code in the VIN being a 'Z' for the 390-4v and 'Q' for 428-4v. What you found stamped into that pad is the ***embly date for the engine ***embly. As noted prior, 6=1966, K=October, 04=4th day of month. 3. Engine ***embly Plant vs Inspector Mark - Here is where there is some confusion due to lack of firm do***entation on my end. On earlier engines a mark at the end of the ***embly date stamped into the block would indicate a mark for the inspector who checked the engine out and stamped the ***embly date into the block (some marks used include a diamond, club, reversed letter or some other odd character. On '58-early '60s FE-blocks a number and a dash preceding the character string would indicate engine ***embly plant. This would be the code for the engine ***embly plant. If I'm seeing this correctly, the -D in the given ***embly date code may well be the engine plant designation, and D=Dearborn may well be right. I'm not sure when this change in in the ***embly date code stamped into the block was made, but suspect it was some time in the '64-'66 time frame. 4. Block Casting Date: The casting date for the block should be adjacent to the bottom of the block just below where the oil filter adapter bolts to the side of the block. If the ***embly date stamped into the pad on the side of the block is 6K04, chances are the casting date is within a few days-weeks before, i.e. 6J2x - 6K03. 5. Block Casting Number: Block casting number as noted above doesn't necessarily mean much without additional information. The C6ME code was used for 390s and 428s from the period, so a little more digging is in order. Now if it has a casting number of C6ME-A it's a 390, and if it has C6AE-A it's a 428. The number '6015' may or may not be present - this is the engineering basic number for the block casting. 6. Crankshaft ID: To add to the crankshaft ID given above, '1U' cast into the edge of #7 counterweight would be for a 428; with a '2U' cast into the edge of the #3 counterweight it would be for a 390. 7. Counterweight or No Counterweight: The counterweight behind the damper is a very good external visual clue that the engine is a 410/428; the 390 was internally balanced and didn't use it. There's also balance weights on the flex plates of 410s/428s that aren't used on 390s. Look for the other casting numbers (block, date), measure the stroke as suggested above, look for the counterweight (or lack of), and drop the oil pan if you're still note sure what it is.
Well then I have conflicting information. If I go my the aluminim tag it is a 1965 390 and if I go by the information stamped on the block it is a 1967 engine. The only reliable information that you can have is what is stamped on the block, the aluminum tag is removable. I do know for a fact that the engine was removed from a '66 Thunderbird. But that does not make it a '66 Thunderbird engine. It was removed in this mellenium and could have been swapped in any time in the 35-40 years of the cars life. I initially used the stamed numbers because what I had read was that the stamped numbers would corrospond to part of the vin and that one could acertain what the engine was because of that information. None of this is to say that your information is not correct, and what you have said is way more reasonable than there is no way to tell what the engine is. I have a real hard time accepting that Ford just slopped engines in cars with no way to identify them. Ford didn't start getting sloppy until the '90s. Thanks for the info. If we can't identify the engine beyond a doubt from thsis thread at least there is some good info for FE guys here. Just to muddy up the waters here are the numbers off of the aluminum tag. Like I said earlier I am not real confident with the tag as I removed the bolt that held it on woth my fingers. 390 65 5 FOMOCO (the oval ford insignia) 5 A 357 J This evening I will unwrap it and look for the block casting numbers, at least we know that it is not a smog era motor.
Which is why i said the previous...Trust me I just went thru all this trying to determine my 410 Merc I have. The chances of a 410 with a 390 tag is very minimal. Now a 390 with a 410 tag....highly! The only hope is the bore would be 4.054 for the 410 and 4.132 for the 428. Both engines crank and same stroke of 3.98 IIRC a buddy of mine also had a mid year 66 T-bird with a 428 in it. From the factory.
From what I'm able to tell, only about 10% of '66-'67 T-birds had the 428, so the chances of that are pretty low. Still, I'm hoping it is
My mom owned a '66 bird with a 428 in it. That was a real car, maybe not a traditional car but it was a lot of fun to ride and drive.
The Jalopy Journal
