Just a thought, punk rock and rat rods.

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4-13, -you have a lot to learn about music before you start to give lectures.

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I have to agree with Sailor

Just because some one is making a good living at what they love to do doesn't make them a sellout!
The fans are the ones that are actually the "sell outs" once thier "one time" favorite band starts to show some kind of success

First... they like this unknown band, then once everyone else likes them, they suddenly hate the band and they suck now... who's the "sell out" ?
I'm sure this mentality can also be directing towards Hotrods as well

CAB

 

Wat wods wule!
Punk wock wules!

 

Well talk about rising from the dead, this post I mean.

 

and to think nads,,,
its still your birthday,,

love,,
miss ho

 

Ok, I'll jump in here.
If you have to analyze any of this shit, music or cars, you're still in the learning phaze and you haven't fully grown yet. You're still searching grasshopper.

When you can listen to the music and just enjoy it or pass on it, you're getting there.

When you're able to appreciate the fine points of a car wether it's a rusty RPU, a badass A, a custom fleetline, or a muscle car, you're getting there.

It is what it is. The only one really selling out is the one who has to analyze it to see how it fits in the great scheme of things. It's your thing, or it isn't. Nobody else really gives a shit. The beatniks, the surfers, the hippies, the disco ducks, rocabillies, punk rockers, rat rodders, street rodders, billit builders were all waves on the beach. The shore is still there. Go for a swim or just strech out on the beach and enjoy the sunshine.
It'll be there wether you give a shit or not...

 

Smokin Joe made me think of the Jimmy Dale Gilmore song: You're not the ocean, you're just a wave…

 

BTW, it's no longer my birthday, but it will be again on August 3rd 2005.

G'damn, it's the mid-noughts already, that's freaky beyond belief.

Time's a flyin', pretty soon it will have run out completely and Smokin' Joe will be proven a guru.

BTW, I'm not the pond, just a tadpole.

 

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If you wanna look back at the state of affairs in the late '80s, early '90s, we had reached a point of perfection that was ripe to spawn the rat rod.


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Nads, that's total bullshit. If anything, it was the pastel colored, splash grapic bedraped, billet gilded, armageddon of taste. Nothing but eye vomit.

Panel and lace jobs are on the horizon. No shit.

 

This might be the first 10 page post I have read all the way through. So many good points and ideas. I gotta say guys, I am surprised at how articulate and well spoken a lot of the posts are. We have some real poets on here, no bullshit. Very good thread.

 

Okay Ted, maybe I was off a few years, but that's what I meant, the 'turquoisification' of hot rodding if you will.

I had a pink '63 Consul Capri in '86, I know of what I speak.

Anyway, cut me slack, my brain's going soft dude.

 

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....
Anarchy is the complete absence of government or law. ... Anarchy could never work because if it existed I would kill you and take your hotrod apart to make mine faster and have no traffic!

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A fear of "Law" is the only thing that keeps you from randomly killing people?

Thanks for the warning....

 

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I had a pink '63 Consul Capri in '86, I know of what I speak.

Anyway, cut me slack, my brain's going soft dude.


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We all have skeletons in our closets, I owned a Volvo 240 wagon...

 

Funniest thing I ever saw written on a punk rocker's jacket.

"Organize now for anarchy"

Was he being ironic?

He looked to be about 17, so I highly doubt it.

 

Many times Doc, many times!!!

Nads I'm not dead, I am as old as you are though which may be a close second!

 

The words “sell out” has this nasty connotation to it, as if selling out was a bad thing. I never said it was. But punk rock is no more sincere in its ideals then any other form of pop music. Punk rock sells itself as boldly anti establishment. The sex pistols were signed by EMI. The New York Dolls signed to Mercury, part of Universal Music Group. They were all part of the establishment. The establishment is what brought punk rock to the masses, and that, by definition, made a hypocrisy out of the ideals of punk rock.

Stripped of the ideals, the only thing left of punk was good music, good old rock and roll, no strings attached. No one can say the Sex Pistols were bad musicians or played bad music, because they were good musicians, and their music was just as creative as anything else. Wasn’t that the whole point? Good music? The music of the time was worthless, and a group of people wanted to bring back some good old rock and roll. Music not so full of its self like progressive rock, without stupid political messages about war, just music for the sake of good music.

The only real reason to play music is to want to make good music. Loading it down with political messages or other crap just cuts down the real reason for the music. Same goes for hot rods. The rat rod anti-billet movement, rebellion, revolution, whatever you want to call it, the ideals there are flawed as well. Building a car as a statement or whatever is bullshit. Just build a good hot rod for the sake of building a good hot rod, and don’t get so full of yourself about being anti this or anti that.

 

well put dave

 

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No one can say the Sex Pistols were bad musicians

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The Sex Pistols were not particularly good musicians (at least not in their "Pistols" days). That was part of their schtick, their big joke on the public. The whole gig was a laugh that turned into some money and some fame and eventually became "no fun".

I love the Sex Pistols, but who can honestly say that Sid Vicious wasn't a bad musician.

 

Actually Chris Spedding played a lot of the guitar parts on Never Mind The Bollocks, Steve Jones wasn't a good player in the beginning, I guess he improved a bit.
Glenn Matlock, however, was a very good bass player. If you get a chance to listen to his post Pistols band, The Rich Kids do it. Ghosts Of Princes in Towers is a great album, it ain't punk, but it's definately power pop.

Shag, I know you're old, I feel your creeks and groans in Florida.

 

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No one can say the Sex Pistols were bad musicians

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We can't?

Even though they had barely learned to play instruments when they were recording?

Even though actual members of the sex pistols say in interviews that they were bad musicians?

Dude, just like the Monkees or N'SYNCH, they were a manufactured band. They weren't a bunch of musicians who formed a band, they were a bunch of non-musicians that Malcolm McLaren thought would make a cool band, and subsequently learned to play instruments (kind of).

Were they punk? Yes.

Did they have some really cool songs? Absolutely.

Were they good musicians? Hardly.

 

I think that there is some reality here. Nads and other folks on here hit the nail on the head in some cases. To me it easier than talking about culture and music and attitudes. Granted all these play a role in the whole thing.

To me its all about MONEY. Yep those little green pieces of paper make people and their style.

Cars- Moderen "Rat rodders" and old timers back in the day have little money so their cars and clothing reflect(ed) that. No money to paint that car? Leave it in primer. Jeans and white T-shirts are realitivly cheap... sooo.. thats just what they wore. They made the best out of what they had. No money for a brand new shiney chrome bumper? They made one instead. They made or modified one themself's cause it was cheap. It just so happened to be cool at the same time. This DIY thing that folks were talking about stems from having no dough. Can afford it..make it. Cool thing is you can make it the way you want it. That equals cool. Do you honestly think that if the rodders of the 50's had the kinda money that Boyd or Foose have, that they would have been driving those kinda cars? I think not really. I know, Someones gonna tell me a story about some old hotrodder that had millions and still drove crappy cars. Save it. I'm speaking in general terms. Now if you have the money for a expensive car and drive a "rat rod" just because it in style then it goes against the whole thing and makes you a idiot. I can't blame a guy for driving a rusty POS if he spent his last dime for gas. But if the same guy has alot of cash and spends $4.95 for a can of primer just cause its cool right now, he is missing the whole point.

Music- Small punk, rockabilly, country, and rock bands have cool factor because of lack of money. They have to make good music without the music industy backings. DIY again. Making big things with little or no resorces. Thats why earlier you find a band the better they are. Bands like Aerosmith were cooler when they weren't a major record label cash cow. The style of those bands reflect the money. Little money = creativity.

Clothes/style. Punk, greasers, and those types stem from the funds. They originaly wore what they could or made their own stuff because they had to. Not because they could walk into the local Hot topic and buy the Punk Rock starter kit. Little rich kids going for the ghetto look just because makes me sick. Designer clothes that cost a arm and a leg that look like something a bum would wear is a shame. Think Ambercrombie. Von Dutch is the same way. Anyone want to spend 100 bucks on a shirt? Bet Ken Howard didn't. Granted style is just that. Style. But if you can dress in Brooks Brothers and choose to wear some high priced crappy looking clothes thats your own business. It won't make you cool.

Money. Yeah thats it. I will probably have a "rat rod" or first a "rat bike" cause I'm broke as a joke. Not because I want to, but because I have to. Trust me. I would drive a Foose mobile if I could. Why? Because if I could have someone else do it why would I do it myself? But in real life I can't. So its do what I can with what I have. DIY. If it comes out looking cool to me in the end thats what its all about.

It isn't a planned decision to be cool that makes you, or your car, or your clothes, or your music cool.

PS. I can draw you anything you want. I cant fricking weld or do alot of engine work so in the end it will probably look and drive like crap. But If I'm happy with it thats the way it is.

My story and I'm stickin to it.

Happy B-day NADS! Ya old fart.

 

Brian,
I like your story ...i'll buy it
CAB

 

Great thoughts there, Brian.

Listen up, HAMBers. You won't be cool with all that money. Put it in an envelope and send it off to me. Then you can be Low Budget bitchen.

Kidding here. I've always believed that the roots of hot rodding came from making a Ford go or look like a Packard or Caddy.

cp

 

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they're selling rat rods at hot topic?

like punk the rat rod is for shock effect.

it's a momentary jab, an ejaculation.

in it's very nature it is impossible to last.

but true hot rods will live forever.

style and beauty will outlast crude slapped together statements.

speed and roadabilty are what driving is all about

and that is what drives this hobby.

Paul






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Amen Brother.

 

Sometimes it takes time to develop an appreciation for the intrinsic value of something.

If you recognize the intrinsic value before it is diluted by overexposure, imitations and being overshadowed by is monetary value, you are lucky.

 

Goshdarn it, quit wishing me a happy birthday. This post is really old, my birthday was in August. For some reason this dumb post has suddenly reemerged, like it was in hibernation or something.

FWIW, I don't think it was Malcolm McClaren that created The Sex Pistols, it was the festering underbelly of nascent punk that created McClaren, punk rock would have happened without him. McClaren was already looking to cash in on The New York Dolls, but he failed. He was, and is, an opportunist, however he did have an eye on what was happening, and he was a genius at marketing.

The idea that because punk bands were on major labels and had huge hits (in England at least) relegates them as sell outs, is utter bullshit. The fact that they managed to achieve those things is supremely punk rock in itself. If I had a chance to get paid a huge sum of money to do what I love, I'd jump on it. I pity the fools that wouldn't.

I've got a friend who's a supremely talented photographer, but he refuses to play the game because of some ridiculous idea about staying true to his 'art.' Fuck that, ain't nothing wrong with working some asshole to your advantage, you can always give them the finger behind their back.

And also, I drive what I drive, build what I build and play what I play because I am still a rebel. It might sound pathetic coming out of a 43 year old married father of two, but if William Burroughs remained untainted into his '90s we all can.

 

What does Wm.Borroughs' t'aint have to do with this?

 

Hi All, I wanted to add my 2 cents , I think everyone is making too big of a deal out of the “Rat Rod” craze, &/or it’s terminology, it’s a moment in time, an evolution in the hobby.
I’m 50+ years old and have been in to cars all of my life, mostly the 20’s to the early 60’s I love them for their beauty, craftsmanship, artwork, etc. etc. etc. I can get a woody just as easily looking at a beater ’29 Ford roadster “Rat Rod” or a dropped section & saved, wide whites/red rimed, primer black ‘50 Merc as I can looking a fully restored Model “J” Duesenberg or a store bought, boxed up kit ‘32 glass coupe.
This also goes for the music I listen to, I love my Doo Wop & Elvis, but I equally love to listen to 60’s & 70’s music, country, jazz, blues and even some of today’s rock.
Can we just except our works of art for what they are “Works of Art” weather they’re a full blown custom, or a beater daily driven rat rod, it’s each individuals interruption of his or hers rolling works of art, as it is sad “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” we should respect the artist and their works of art.

 

completely agree

 

Back, from the LONG lost archives.

 

Do FNGs read the posts in reverse order?