Shady business practices by Grundy Insurance? You be the judge.

Its based on proven statistics. Someone that lives in an urban area (or works/visits regualrly) is more likely to have their car stolen or damaged then someone who lives in the burbs or country. A person under a certain age is more likely to have an accident then someone older with more driving experience. Someone who has a job and medical coverage thru that employer is going to cost the insurance company less in the case of an accident were medical attention is necessary. You're a smart guy, you get it.

 

I had that with Hagerty. My premium jumped slightly but the also increased my agreed value. Grundy advised me the value of my car increased so my rates increased. It was fine with me.

 

Yeah, I get that. . . and using the word "proven" is questionable. Everyone knows that statistics is basically the art of lying to suit your own agenda. Liability is more in The Bronx than it is in other parts of New York City, when I asked why they told me cause of more auto thefts in The Bronx. Then when I said that liability doesn't cover my car if it's stolen they didn't have an answer.

Even if someone steals my car and crashes it into another car it's not covered by my liability insurance while it's stolen. . . but somehow the rate is higher based on the auto theft stats. Makes zero sense what-so-ever.

 

It's still unfair to the kid who never gets a ticket or causes an accident to have to pay higher rates because of something someone else did. Like the uninsured motorist fee on my daily driver policy. If it's illegal to drive without insurance here in Maryland, why do I have to pay this fee? So I'm paying so someone else can break the law? Sure, there's legal mumbo-jumbo the insurance companies use to justify it, but it still boils down to the same thing.
It would all be different if it wasn't such a fight for honest folks to deal with insuirance companies, but the bottom line it they are in business to make money first. Anything that resembles customer service is purely coincidental these days. Good customer service is the exception.

 

They didn't mention the agreed value increased, but I also didn't ask. I will this time.

 

Rates go up because repair costs go up. You are ***uming total loss, not crash/repair damage. The agreed value is not the issue.

 

In the law enforcement world, this is called "profliing." And we (society) is clamoring about this being bad. But in the insurance world, these are simply actuarial tables. I just wish we'd all get on one method or the other. I have to pay more for insurance because I'm a guy... and the actuarial tables say that "guys" are more expensive to insure... even though my personal driving record has zero at-fault accidents in 30+ years. But I pay the penalty anyway.

As for employer medical insurance reducing accident insurance liability, it shouldn't (and doesn't). The fact that I have medical insurance that covers illness/injury, doesn't abdicate responsibility from vehicle-insurance-related issues... especially when someone else is at fault. The typical course (which we don't usually see, because it's done behind the scenes) is that I go get my neck injury fixed and the doctor gets paid by my health insurance. Then, the health insurance company subrogates with the vehicle insurance company to recoup expenses. This is sometimes amicable, and sometimes requires litigation... but it happens a LOT. It is why you often get the battery of questions from your doctor about how the injury happened, were you at work? were you in a car accident? and so on.

/2 cents, back to the thread

 

if it's the same thing that's going on industry wide their underwriting is going up and they're p***ing the costs along to you. I've seen it on all the policies we just renewed for my job. I'd probably chock it up to inflation, but you can always question them and shop the policy. do you due diligence.

 

I like the chris rock explanation. Isn't insurance in case something goes wrong? "In case **** happens. Well if **** don't happen shouldn't I get my money back?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75Zr8Wccwb0

 

OP:
"When we contacted Grundy to inquire as to why, we were told (more or less, not a direct quote) that because the values on our cars is going up, the premium went up."

Don'tcha love posters who don't read the original post?

 

Maybe your location has something to do with it. Your area may have become a bit higher theft area. Also they check your credit rating as a means to determine rates. If you credit rating drops they feel you will be more apt to turn in a clame then fix it out of pocket. Had this explained to me when my pop retired, same as you live in same house. His income dropped and made the household income change. debt ratio got higher. I still have my job and pay the bills ect and that is what the payments are figured on, but his and moms drop in income changed my credit rating. Damn FICO scores.

 

You don't have Agreed Value. State Farm doesn't sell that type of policy. They sell Stated Value. Your value is the max they'll pay out. If they don't think the vehicle is worth that amount, they'll come up with their own figure.

 

I have never personally had Grundy nor Hagerty, as their rates were higher than others I looked into and I had heard horror stories with them both. I have lots of friends who have had them and have gone through all sorts of problems and issues with them for years and had lots of trouble with both companies when they had to make claims.
I have used JC Taylor and have been with them for many years now. Their rates have not increased much at all over the years and when they do, they give you notice of the increase beforehand and explain why the increase. Part of the best thing of their policy is that they allow you to set the value of your vehicle up to a certain amount ($30,000-$40,000 depending on your policy) and anything over that amount then you need to have an appraisal on the vehicle that they will then agree upon with you for the determined value. Your premiums are based on your declared value of the vehicle and obviously if you claim your car is worth $100 then all you are gonna get on a total loss is $100 but if you claim the value is $10,000 then that is all you would get, etc. I have never had to file a claim with them personally, so I don't know how they are during a claim process but have had a couple folks I know that have had JC Taylor that went through a claim with them and were pleased with their experience. You may want to check out JC Taylor and see if they fit your needs better. I know they will give you a free estimate, so would be well worth the time looking into.

And before it starts, NO I don't work for JC Taylor and NO I have no affiliation with them and NO I don't get any kick backs from them for advertising, just simply stating my experience with them.

 

THIS!

Both companies 'bump' the value of the car yearly. You might insure the car for $20K to start out, but the next year you may notice the car is now insured for $20,300 (or similar). They try to do this so the vehicle doesn't become underinsured. I can see where the value may p*** a certain dollar amount and there might be a slight increase. Check your declaration certificates and see what the car is actually insured for now.

I just totaled a '48 Chevy and the car was insured for $12,480. No one insures a car for the extra $400 let alone $480. I bet this car was initially insured for $12K.

They are attempting to protect your investment. My guess is that the 'bumps' in coverage are for more than the bump in premium.

 

In the insurance world, it's called redlining. In Detroit, that redline is at 8 Mile Rd (see Eminem). The road seperates the city from the northern suburbs. Live south of 8 Mile and watch your rates double. The State Insurance Commission will set limits on this. Other companies won't even write policies in Detroit. Why? This is where the crime is. I'd like to think Denise can back me up on this, but the odds of being carjacked are many times greater in Detroit than say Farmington Hills or Novi (Detroit suburbs). I doubt vintage car insurers are blind to this.

 

This is the big reason in Ontario there is a current funk happening with Collector Car Insurance, prior to last year you were required to have an Appraisal by a recognized appraiser to establish the correct (not lower, not higher) replacement value which lasted for aprox. 5 years. So there is no annual increase. Then last year Hagarty entered the picture waving their big **** around , Selling policies with out the appraisal requirement with the owner establishing the value. Which does not make sense to me. Rumour has it they can do this because of the sheer number of policy holders they have in the USA and they are prepared to take a hit on a percentage basis. Then you wonder why your rates keep going up, when in fact the other Collector Car policies with agreed value appraisal backed policies are going down annually . Yes I am an appraiser, and most Canadian car owners are not falling for the Hagarty speel.

 

Question for the OP. Do you or your Father ever leave the cars outside overnight? I don't think this is the reason for your premium increase, but I'm pretty sure most of the collector car policies require that the vehicle be kept in a secure garage/bldg. when not in use. Don't even think that those GPS satellites up there can't determine where your car is left overnight. Just something to think about.

 

My feeling is that the insurance industry tries to make money no matter out of which side of their corporate mouth they speak. If you insure your car for a specific agreed amount (for total loss) then the fact that repair rates go up has little to do with their risk exposure. The real risk is on you - that the estimate for repairs put your car at risk of being "prematurely" totaled...all things being equal. So, some small amount of premium increase that also increases the agreed value is to your benefit.

In the long term the cost of insurance will raise at some rate approaching the cost of living index since that also comes to play in the cost of money.

If you can see the agent or underwriters mouths moving they are probably telling you fable of some sort.

Charlie

 

I have Grundy and "agreed value". Here's the way I see it. It's a lot like fire insurance on your house. Of all houses that catch fire, only a small percentage of those that do are a total loss. So, lets say you have a $200,000 house, and live about a block from the fire station, so you know that even if your house catches fire, it's not likely to sustain much damage, so you tell the insurance company you only want $50,000 of fire coverage. Nope, they want your house covered for a minimum 85% of it's value so they can charge the higher premium. Your car is no different. Most claims aren't for total loss, but they don't want you paying a premium that will cover anything less than a total loss. Therefore, as your car appreciates, they expect the "agreed amount" to go up. Not saying I agree, but it's how insurance companies see things.

Bob

 

Yeah, I'd like to be on the other end of the phone with the mortgage company when they find the home was only insured for 50%. Anything with a loan will require full coverage.

A comp & collision policy will always be for 100%. I can see the lawsuits...
"Well it's the insurance companies fault my home is only insured for 50%. They know the business better than I do. They should have MADE me insured for 85% or 100%"

When I come out to look a car, I know what it's insured for. If the car is underinsured, I tell the owner. And I always recommend they get an appraisal done every few years. The thing is, a detailed appraisal is almost as must as the cost of the policy. A lot of people don't want to spend that money. The insurance company lets you decide what the car is worth. The policy is priced accordingly. Use the house above as an example. If you want to insured your $30K car for $15K, they will not stop you. You'll pay $30 less and when there is an accident and the car is totaled at roughly $10,500 when it could have been repaired instead. Explain how that makes sense?

 

Market values going up?I dont think so,selling a car now is tough unless you want to give it away.

 

They don't so that everywhere. I have had Hagerty for about 10 years. They have NEVER bumped my agreed value without my requesting it. I believe it's because California insurance law forbids them from doing that!

 

I so totally agree with this.

Currently, the lawmakers (who cannot balance a budget) make it mandatory for me to have insurance that must be purchased from an insurance company (that also cannot balance a budget) that charges me 4 times as much as they would if I lived in the county 3 miles to north. No accidents or tickets in the last 25 years.

I actually sit down with my insurance agent every year and ask stupid, what if..? type questioins. Same agent the last 4 years. It's amazing how the same questions have different answers 4 years later. It's kind of a legalized "scam".

My advice is to call your agent and spend some time with them. Have a list of questions and scenario's that you want answers to. You have to have some type of insurance so you might as well be comfortable with whimever you chose.

 

I had State Farm on my Every Day driver 1950 GMC Panel Truck. Stated Value not Agreeded value. I have been a AAA member since 1975 once again, no Agreed Value Policy. I know because when I went to switch the 50 GMC over to my AAA policy 2 years ago my agent of 35 years told me so.
Anything other than PLPD and they want an appaisal from a certified appraiser.
Haggerty's big thing was always the "self appraised value" angle.
Didn't need to get pay to have it done.
My Brother has run bodyshops for 30 plus years and as he says,"All insurance companies can screw you if they want to".

 

Both are garaged 24/7 (when not in use, obviously). We had to send pics of the garage, as I recall it.


I greatly appreciate all the input, and now have some good info for asking some question when the renewal comes.

The speculative reasons as to why the policy went up are just that, speculative. The bottom line is we were told by Grundy that it was due to increased values on the car. If that is indeed 100% accurate, I can live with it. I would have appreciated better customer service on Grundy's end, and given the option to opt-out of this when we called, but as we all know, customer service has become a foreign concept.

 

inflation ?

 

Often located in Mumbai or Manila.

 

in my book insurance salesmen, politicans. lawyers,accountants ,dog wardens and traffic wardens are all slimey *******s especially if they have a moustache or wear a suit or uniform

 

The problem here is that you are asking your agent. Talk directly to the company.

 

And so can the body shops.

Look, I refuse to believe anyone goes to work everyday thinking who can I screw today. You have people who make the wrong decision because they may not know the policy like they should for various resons (inexperience, misintepretation, etc.). And like any other walk of life, you have those who are lazy and mail it in. Is it right? Absolutely not. In fact when I see this happen, it's extremely frustrating.

But good, back or indifferent, I'd bet that they honestly think they are making the right call when they make that call. Again, is it right? NO! To me, the big problem is insurance companies hire inexperienced personel to keep costs down. They training is spotty. And this is how Geico, Progressive, Essurance, Direct General, etc. save you money in 15 minutes or less. Other companies like Auto Owners, USAA, etc work on the idea of excellent customer service. But they are more expensive and they don't run commercials 24/7.

Also keep in mind that collectors car appraisers are usually handled by independent appraisers like myself. Some of us older guys are familiar with these cars. Others work for larger companies and primarily deal with late model, daily drivers. But they are sent an ***ignment and they do it. As the older guys retire or die off, you have to hope you get a guy who is a fellow hobbist. Not every appraiser is a car guy. There is no way around this.