So today I decided to take my 51 Chev Sport Coupe w/ newly installed MII IFS to the only alignment shop within a 10 mile radius that would even look at something "that old", and had a decent reputation. I had spoke to the guy on the phone a few days previous, and he said he would take a look and see what he could do. Talked to him about doing an exhaust, and he said he could probably do that as well, so I thought I would give this place a shot. I was a little hesitant to drive the car to the shop because of some out of camber issues, but nothing huge as I had driven the car quite a bit. Everything goes smoothly and I pull into a parking spot at the garage. Go in and talk to the tech and after the same old "what year is it again?", song and dance we finally decide that he will put it on the lift and take look. Go out to the car and he asks for the keys. I hand them over and he hops in and grinds the **** out of the starter. Guess what? Now the starter is not engaging the fly wheel.....grinddd..whirr. ****. I had some problems with some misalignment with the starter before, but had corrected it by just shifting the starter and re-torquing the bolts. So I had the guy fetch me some tools to see if I could do the same again..no go. Long story short, we pushed the car onto the alignment rack, and left them to align it, as I had to get back to the office. An hour later I get a call from the owner of the shop, the guy I initially talked to on the phone, who was not there when I left the car. He asked who had done the work to the car, and that there was no way he could put an exhaust on it. He then started to complain that everything seemed to be welded in. The crossmember was welded in, the strut rod mounts were welded in, even the motor mounts were welded in!! I was so dumbfounded I did'nt know what to say....what? should I have used sheetmetal screws?? He then said that the front wheels were tilted in, and I told him that I knew that, and that's why I wanted it aligned...another no **** moment...so I left it that he should align it to the the specs of a Mustang II. I know most shops won't touch anything that deviates in any way from stock, but the guy said he could do it. Bottom line, I am nervous as hell that this guy has my car and I now have a car that wont start. What to do?
Sounds like your starter needs a brace. How can you blame the mechanic for your starter because he turned the key !! If your mustang II swap was installed correctly he shouldn't have a problem. Actually you should be able to get it very close without any fancy 50,000 alignment rack. Especially if you could figure out how to get it into a 51 Chevy. Let the guy do his thing, or get back on the phone.
You should see the Tech's face when you ask if they can align a 1974 Mustang II, they say sure, then you drive onto the rack in a pro-streeted 1935 Ford Pickup with a really lumpy cam. The dude thought I was messing with him, but aligned it perfectly.
Sounds like you might not have the right starter bolts, if you can move the starter around Anyways, good luck, hot rods can be "fun" at times.
Call a tow truck and take your broken down car home and fix the starter as mentioned above. Get a caster/camber gauge and do the alignment yourself. Take it to a real exhaust shop for the system. Change your location to your town, instead of USA, so locals can sugest a shop.
Mate, you have just been enlightened by the, THE! Guru of the HAMB. you now know what the problem is. All hail the Squirrel!! Doc.
I have had Mustang fronts suspensions in some of my streetrods and never had a problem finding a shop to align them. The bigger shops like a Goodyear tire and Auto store will have access to the proper specs. Your starter problem could simply be a bad starter, proper mounting of it or one that needs shimming. Got a nice car cheap once because the guy could never get the starter to work right. He gave up and sold the car. After towing it home, we took about 20min to get it shimmed properly. Also make sure you have the correct flywheel/starter combination. There are also some muffler places that custom bend pipes. If you have some tight areas consider joining the pipes together. Welding or fitting the joined pipes with muffler clamps could solve that problem. Good luck. Your reward will be waiting behind the wheel as you cruise down the road in that 51.
Find another alignment shop with techs that know how to think outside the box. Take the problems one at a time and fix them.
Sounds like you're not in the right shop. But now everyone has those fancy computerized wheel alignment systems and some shops won't call it a complete alignment unless EVERY spec is in the green. If your MII upper a-arms are the sliding type, they're hard to do at home. Not impossible, but you'll need caster/camber gauges and a home-grown sliding set of plates for the wheels to rest on. Bob
it's hard to find someone to work on these old cars. as a rule when i make the first contact with these people i try to read thier body language. if they won't listen, or have an at***ude abought you and the project..leave! I've had them ask why??? why would you do this ?? this guy does not want to work on your old car! I've asked these front end guys, isn't there any kind of rule like caster so much and camber sould be this on this kind of car???? I like 1/8" toe in ect. and set it up that way and drive it to see if its OK??? I've never got an answer! how ever they are always happy to hand me a print out of what the manual said some ford should be because his computer doesn't go back that far. then i go home and use a strait edge and 2 framing squares and some clamps. turn the steering wheel lock to lock and count the turns. set the steering wheel in the center. now use my squares to see how much to move the tierods to square things up, now a little toe in. think about it and its as easy as dropping a prom dress
I had a nice Bear rack where I last did alignments. The word got out and I had a good trade with the local stock car and drag-street racing crowd. A pro-stock Vega on the rack was always popular. Some brought a sheet of their specs and I went by them. Others, we had to wing and I had no problem bringing the car back up on the rack again if I had to. Bob
Keep in mind, when you align it yourself...fill the driver's seat with weights to match how much you weigh. Carry a p***enger often to a cruise night? Fill the p***enger seat with her weight (uh, guess ). Especially on a lightweight hotrod, it makes a diff.
How much does an alignment cost these days? Do you think you might, in the course of a couple years, need more than one? If so, just go and buy a Longacre magnetic alignment guage. Set it yourself. If you're handy enough to install an M2 front end, it's a piece of cake! I think Summit or Speedway has them for just over 100$. I got one just to 'rough out' cars before I send them out, and now I don't even bother to go to the alignment shop any more!
I have Mustang 11 in my truck,,shop was tickled pink to have the truck sitting on their lot for the day. Got lots of attention on the corner. Took them a bit longer because it was so far out of whack for the rack at first. If the guys are pro's no problem. Exhaust should likely go to a shop that deals exclusively in exhaust if there are severe clearance issues..Don't want to be paying an auto shop top dollar for something they do occasionally.
Plus one on the diy route. I use a craftsman digital level for caster and camber, and a home made tramel bar for toe. You can always do the scribe a line on the tire method for too, also. Slip plates are two foot squares pieces of linoleum, slick side facing each other, with a little grease.
since everything else is welded in might as weld in starter too - Ha! so, let us know what the end result of your turmoil.
The problem w/ most alignment shops is that no one "knows" how to align a frt end. These new machines tell the "tech" what to do, not what's wrong & then the "tech " using his knowledge of alignment to correct it . It's the same problem w/ diagnostics of any sort ,without the machine to tell them what to do ,they're lost !! dave
Why should the guy need to pull any of the "welded in" stuff out to put an exhaust on it? I'd keep shopping for a shop....
So today I am on the golf course, so I could'nt be as animated as I normally would be, and the shop calls. He tells me that my rack is bad and he can't align it. Bad insides he says. He then says that flywheel has had all the teeth ground off because the starter was not installed properly. I told him to just stop, and I would be in Monday to pick it up....so I guess the search begins for a competent shop that will do work without *****ing and moaning about the car being something out of the norm. Could the flywheel actually be that chewed up? That makes me really nervous, sounds like a whole hell of alot of work swapping one out. Not really worried about the rack, I dont think there is anything wrong with it, I think the guy is just lazy.
As for the starter issue, I hope you haven't chewed up the ring gear on the flywheel. Take a look at the teeth on the flywheel while you've got the starter out.
Your starter should not move around on the bolts so much as to allow engagement or dis-engagement from the flywheel. THAT'S A PROBLEM. loosening the bolts, moving the starter and re- torquing them is not a fix for that problem. The starter is capable of more torque laterally than you can ever possibly apply with the bolts vertically in a clamping situation to counteract it. The clamping action of the bolts is to resist rotational force and secure the starter against gravity. Most starter bolts have a special knurled shank. Yes that will eat the teeth off of the flywheel. It's easier to change a flywheel that to install a mustang II suspension in a 51 Chevy. As far as his opinion on your rack goes, I have no idea, but its not very difficult to check and see if its bad.
I will be installing a brace and new bolts on the starter when I re-install it. I havent had a chance to look at the flywheel yet, I'm kinda scared to. What cons***utes a bad rack? Its a little sloppy, but nothing I would consider outrageous. It moves freely back and forth when I turn the wheel, seems fine to me, turns the car just fine. Went into the shop with 2 easy, I thought, fixes, came out with major issues. Ah the joys of hotrodding...guess I'll start by getting it back to the shop.
I'm confused. You freely admit your car has a sloppy rack and that the starter has been mis-aligned and didn't have the support bracket installed BUT the shop you took it to is some how the problem? Not judging here but your original post ***le should be referred to again.
Update-The car now starts! Thanks to a new hi-torque mini starter and new flexplate...not cheap. Somehow the bendix was not fully engaging the ring gear and chewed it up. Lesson learned. I think I've got someone lined up that will be able to align it.. Had some other guys look at the rack and they said it was fine. Time will tell..
My 35 Chevy had a Mustang ll that would make a left turn if you let go of the steering wheel. Took it to Whalen and Sons shop in New Albany, Indiana that does alignments the old fashioned way without digital equipment. This was a few years ago but I remember being out of there for about thirty dollars and a car that tracked straight. New Albany is not too far from Indy. Thats the only place I know of that will work on a hotrod and do the job right. If I can be any help let me know.
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